Building trust and making meaningful connections in museums with Anja Høegh

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Hello and welcome to The Art Engager podcast.

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I'm Claire Bown.

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Here to help you create more engaging experiences in

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museums and cultural spaces.

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This podcast is all about unlocking the potential of engagement.

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We'll be exploring key practices that transform how you connect with

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art, objects, people, and ideas.

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Together we'll dive into techniques that spark curiosity, foster

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dialogue, and build deeper.

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Let's get started with today's episode.

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Hello and welcome to a new episode of The Art Engager.

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Today I'm chatting with museum educator and project manager Anja Høegh.

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Anja's worked in museums for over 20 years, focusing on education,

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exhibitions, and making museums more engaging and accessible.

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For everyone.

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With a background in teaching art, media, and theatre, and experience

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as a director and stage designer, she brings a unique perspective to

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her current role at Museum Salling.

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In this episode, we talk about the importance of making connections,

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the challenges of building trust with visitors, and how to keep them engaged.

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Anja shares how she uses sensory experiences slow looking, and activities

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like drawing yoga to help visitors connect with each other and the

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artworks or objects they're looking at.

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You're in for a treat.

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Enjoy.

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Hi, Anja, and welcome to The Art Engager podcast.

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Thank you, Claire.

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So glad to be here.

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I'm delighted you're here.

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Could you tell us who you are and what you do?

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Yeah, my name is Anja Høegh, and I'm from Denmark.

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And right now I'm working on a project that's called Art and Cultural Laboratory.

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And it's at a museum in the northern part of Denmark.

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and then I have some of my own small projects about art and theatre.

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But mainly the arts and cultural laboratory has my sort of main focus.

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It's a big project.

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So, what brought you to here?

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Because you've got quite an interesting background, theatrical design.

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Tell us a little bit about how you got into museums.

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Yeah I really wanted to be a stage designer and a costume designer.

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But I got arthritis when I was 13, so I had to change my way in a way.

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And when I was studying to be a teacher, I went to an internship at the

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Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York.

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And That's probably where my sort of curiosity started in what could this

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place actually be and what could it do?

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And I had these really great experiences on Mondays when the museum was closed

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and there was nobody there except the guards, of course, but nobody

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was there, so it was very quiet.

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And I think some of that.

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story in a way, and also the possibilities that I got at the

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museum when I was an intern, turned on my curiosity to say, okay, that

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might be a road for me at some point.

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And then I got the opportunity some years later, and now I've been in

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the business for about 20 years.

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And you've worked at a variety of different museums.

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Previously to Museum Saling, you were at a much larger museum.

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Do you want to tell us about some of the projects you've worked on previously?

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Yeah, I was a team lead in our education team for both nature and culture

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for about eight and a half years.

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And then I was fortunate enough to also be a project lead in some of

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our exhibitions and our museums.

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And I think that one of the things that I'm really proud of

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is when we had to rebuild a museum that's called Nymindegab Museum.

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It's on the west coast.

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It's a beautiful place.

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And we had to say, okay, now we have to rethink the story here.

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What are we going to do?

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And I really think that it grasped a lot of the ways to engage in an

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experience together as a family, for instance, but also both for young and

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adults when they come to visit the museum as a school class or whatever.

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So that's one of the things that I'm really proud to have been able to

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participate in and it's a great thing to experience people's joy when they

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visit the museum and they see the vast variety of things that they can engage in.

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And then we have had some projects with local schools that we've developed a

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different kind of workshops for the kids from all the way down to when

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they're before nursery school, actually, and all the way up to ninth grade.

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And that's been interesting to also be in the project group about how do we do this?

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how do we combine art and culture and nature in these workshops that

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the kids have to go and visit?

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So that's a, Two big things that I've just come to mind that I'm real

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proud of participating in, yeah.

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So a wide variety of projects there.

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And from our previous conversation as well, I get the sense that we

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have lots of things in common, lots of things that we're passionate

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about, enthusiastic about.

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I see your connections between museums and nature and art and

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objects, but also connecting people with museums, the senses.

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Tell me about some of the values that inform and drive your work.

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Yeah, I think I've always been interested in how to connect things.

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And I think the wanting to be a stage designer or a costume

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designer, you can be able to connect things like a puzzle in a way.

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So I think that's just broadened out in my work that I've had to work with

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a lot of different people's education background or their cultural background.

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And I think that's very interesting to see that a person who is mainly

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based in their art world can connect with somebody that's mainly based

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in the nature or science world.

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so connecting for me is the essence of what I think that both a museum

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can do or other experience places are able to do, if we want to.

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Of course it can also be a hard task.

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But I think the connecting is what drives me even though it's hard

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to get these languages together.

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And also, connecting with the visitors in the museum is also a big part of my job.

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How is the connecting established from when you enter the door or

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even before you enter the door.

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And we've actually made a study group and I think I started the study

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group maybe in 2019 or something.

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And then Corona of course hit, but then one of my old colleagues

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re engaged the group and we still talk about these challenges that

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we have with how do we connect?

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we meet up every three months and we talk about these things and it's a good

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way to really dive into what it means.

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Tell me about some of those challenges that you mentioned there.

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What are the unique challenges that we have as educators, as museum people, with

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connecting with people in the museum?

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Yeah, I think that sometimes when you take a big museum all these groups that

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actually work together with the hosts or the booking people or you as an educator

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how much do we connect on a daily basis?

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Because I think this is a very important base for us to establish

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a good visit for the kids or for the teachers or for whatever group.

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And I think the challenges is when we start talking about it.

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what challenges do you have here with the booking?

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What challenges do you have over here with the hosting?

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What challenges do we have as educators?

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Is there room in this exhibition today or whatever?

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So I think that the challenges is that we definitely have to be better At

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talking and developing things together.

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are we actually ready to have this group visiting us today?

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Are the hosts ready to greet this group of kids or whatever?

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And we have to remember that we are actually, all of us are a team that

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are a part of the relationship that the kids get to have with us at the museum.

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And it also set a tone for you as an educator when you enter maybe for a

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group that has had a terrible entry in the museum with a host who has been

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angry at them or whatever it sets a tone for you when you do your workshop.

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So I think that we have to think about all the steps that leads to the visit.

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I also talked to you before about when do you start connecting?

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And I think that you actually start connecting way before the visit.

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And how do you do that?

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Is it a big museum where it's just a booking that's online?

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Or do you actually connect with a real person?

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Is the teacher calm about going on a trip?

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Or is it a substitute teacher going on a trip with this class

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that he or she doesn't know?

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So I think that there are some things to consider on when we connect and how

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we connect and with who we connect.

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Yeah, and as you say, it happens way before the group actually

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physically set foot in the museum.

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So those connections are being made when they look at the website.

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So those connections are being made when we take a booking or when

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we send them communication about the program or what to expect.

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All of that is connection making in your eyes.

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Yeah, it is because it sets a tone for also for expectations.

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What does the teacher expect?

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And we talked last time in our group about this.

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What do the teachers expect when they've read your webpage?

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Does that fulfill it?

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Or could a An introduction video, could that be easier

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because the teacher is busy?

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Instead of a long piece of paper that you forget to read So I think that we

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really have to be better at talking in the museum about how do we want to do this?

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We talk a lot about, oh, we have to be good hosts and stuff.

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But I think that we sometimes forget that it's all of us that

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are the ones that connect with the guests that enters the door.

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And that happens when you grasp the phone or when you book or

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when they leave or whatever.

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So I think that It could be a really interesting subject to dive into.

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Yeah.

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What else influences connection making there?

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Cause we've got we've got the pre visit things that are going on there, but also

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there are things that happen when people arrive in the actual building, when they

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walk through the doors and they're looking around them and how they're greeted.

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So, yeah.

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What other factors

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I've just had a visit from 29 students, and that's a lot in a small museum.

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One of, we have four museums in the museum I work in, and our art museum is not big.

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So 29 people in the small arrival area is a lot.

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So, you also have to consider these things when they arrive.

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What are we going to do?

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Where are we putting the bags?

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Where are we putting the jackets and stuff like that?

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And it takes time.

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if we then start to hurry people, oh, hurry put your bag over here,

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and now we have to start, and oh, they have to go to the bathroom.

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And how good are we at that?

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Because it could be stressful if it's a group of let's say 10 year olds and that

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are arriving and they've had a long bus trip and so I think that also especially

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a focus on the arrival and what do we do?

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And also that you as an educator you meet The class, of course, but

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you also have a host that's there.

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And if you both are good at getting everybody settled I think that The visit

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is already getting off to a good start

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Yeah, and I think you're absolutely right.

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So we often are keen to get onto the content.

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this is what the museum is all about.

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The things, the objects, the collections.

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But those first five, ten minutes are crucial.

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They're so, so important.

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And if people, as you say, feel rushed, you're not taking the time to

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create trust, to build psychological safety, but also to give them time to,

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perhaps see to their needs that they might have when they arrive as well.

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Yeah, and I think you have a right point in what the connection is

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really about, that it's about trust.

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I maybe be their educator for a couple of hours.

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I really want to stress that an hour is not enough.

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That's also a challenge actually for some schools that, that they

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have so short time, but I think that the baseline has to be that we want

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to build some trust because I'm a stranger in their life and they've may

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have had a bad morning or whatever.

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So we really have to focus on trust.

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And I think that's what the connection is about.

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Often the kids didn't have a say that they should visit the museum.

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It's the teacher's agenda.

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And we have to find out how do we connect with these students so they feel that

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this is also their place and their place for communicating about their ideas.

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Maybe history or art or whatever.

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So I think trust is a really good word to focus on actually with the connection.

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Yeah.

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And it's not easy.

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So we have an hour, as you saying quite often, it's an hour and we'd all

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like more, we would in an ideal world.

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We'd like, at least an hour and a half, which allows time for settling

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in and giving people time before we actually move on to the museum.

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So how can you build trust within an hour long program?

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I mean, it's a tall order, isn't it?

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It's a very tall order.

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And I think that what I do and sometimes it's, of course, it's not easy and

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sometimes I don't succeed in it, but I think that for me, when I say hello

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to the students, it's very important for me to really say hello to them and

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meet their eye and present who I am.

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and I tend to try and learn their names.

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I love that actually.

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So it's a challenge for me, of course but if I have the time, of course I really

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want to learn their names because there is something in that we know each other's

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names that builds something between us.

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And of course, in a busy day and a busy setting.

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And if it's like, say, the Natural History Museum in London,

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I know it would be impossible.

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But as we talked about when I was at my old job, we actually talked

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about buying some tags where you can write the kids names with chalk

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and then just wipe it out after.

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Because there is something that I've seen you, and you are

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here, and this is our space.

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There's something about that connection that's it's amazing what conversations

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I've sometimes had with kids that are only four or five years old about

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archaeology or I've just had some kids that are about 20 years old, I had the

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most beautiful conversation with them.

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And I think that's when you really say, I see you.

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You are here, and we're here together.

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I don't know if it sounded corny.

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I think it sounds great.

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I think there's something about saying someone's name, isn't it?

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That focuses the mind, and it's that connection.

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Instant moment of connection when you mention someone's name.

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Oh, Anya, it's bringing you into focus and getting your attention.

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Are there other moments we should be thinking about for connection making?

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So we've talked about pre entry, we've talked about entry.

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What about during the program.

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How are we making connections when we're with the group in the museum

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in the main part of our program?

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Yeah,

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I usually let them walk around in couples and let them talk about

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their art what they notice, what.

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connects with them or whatever and it gets them all around

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the room or whatever we are in.

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And then I have a practice that I walk around and listen to the

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conversations and maybe I engage in the conversation with them because

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then I just have these two kids.

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And can say, Oh what did you say?

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And what did you notice?

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And I heard you said this.

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And so this is my way of connecting with them in a smaller group because sometimes

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it's, it can be very intimidating to say something in this strange room.

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And

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I also use a "chatterbox" that's what I found out that was called.

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This is

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this origami game that we all know from childhood where you're opening

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and closing a piece of paper.

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Yeah,

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exactly.

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And in Danish we call it flip flop and in my childhood it was

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called a spo, that sort of you can make a fortune telling thing.

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So.

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Many names, but a chatterbox, I actually like that name because

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that's what it's supposed to do, that it starts a conversation.

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Because sometimes when you just say, okay, walk around and talk amongst

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yourself, and nobody says a lot, but the chatterbox for the smaller kids,

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I would choose the question and have these chatterboxes ready for them.

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And they can have these in pairs and walk around.

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And if there's really small kids, you can have pictograms or icons.

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So maybe it's a color or a shape that they should notice.

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And for the bigger kids, I usually, then I can send it out before they visit the

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museum and say they have to fill out with questions and when they get to the museum

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they shift them into different groups so they don't get their own questions.

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So I start a conversation that I can walk around and listen to and

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then I gather them around and we start a conversation about a piece.

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Yeah, I really like that idea.

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I've also heard it called a paper fortune teller.

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I didn't use that when I was growing up, but I can't remember what we did call it.

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But I love that.

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It's an element of chance, isn't it as well?

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It's like, I guess, using museum cards, when you're just, You're

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choosing a card at random.

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And that's appealing to groups as well.

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We're not on this routine where we're doing the same thing at every object.

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There's a little bit of independence involved.

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You're letting them go off on their own, a little bit of agency as well.

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And you're also bringing in that small group connection.

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So as you say, it can be really hard with a big group to try and

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make connections with people.

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And Also, it's harder for quieter people to speak up in front of the whole group.

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Exactly.

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It has a lot of key elements that I give the possibility for

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everybody to speak in a way.

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And exactly what you said about the autonomy, that's when you're in a sort

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of an agenda that's not your own, then I give them a little bit of freedom.

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You can walk around Having this and you can just choose which works

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that you want to talk about and

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So, so there's a, it's a bit of freedom in that as well.

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And I think it's, it frees up the conversation actually.

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Yeah.

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And we were talking about connection making from many sides here.

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So quite often people educators might think about connections

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between themselves and the group, but it's also connections between.

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The group themselves, so they may know each other quite often with a class,

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they'll know each other, sometimes very well, sometimes not so well.

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Other groups, they won't know each other.

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So we want to encourage connection making within the group.

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We also want to encourage connection making with the objects in our collection.

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So how do you encourage that outside of these ideas you've already explained?

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Yeah, we talked about that there's a lot of things that connects us.

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I love the curious inquiry that the kids come with that I use to

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talk about the works, of course.

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And I really try not to have an agenda.

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And sometimes, of course it's a bit needed that I have an agenda of a

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point, but then I draw it back to me and say, this is what I think.

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This is how I was feeling.

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But sometimes to really connect with the piece, I also get them

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to color a little color sample.

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So it's not a drawing.

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exercise.

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It's just crayons and a piece of paper.

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And I explained that we look at this work and we try and find

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out what kind of colors have the artists used and how much of it.

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So they draw a little square and then in this square, they

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put the small blotches of paint.

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And then we can talk about, Oh, he used a lot of blue and

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then he used a small orange.

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why do you think that is?

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And then we can talk about a little bit about actually color theory.

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so this is another way of connecting with the art piece and the color

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sample they can bring home, of course.

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Yeah, and I like the way of bringing in other ways of working

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that you're talking about there.

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Yeah.

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As well, and bringing in the senses.

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So you're a big fan of using the senses.

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Can you tell us a little bit about that?

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Yeah, I love that.

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With smaller kids, maybe I would, I love suitcases and boxes.

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So with smaller kids, I'll probably bring in some small suitcases because

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then there's some surprise and we can open suitcases and I've done something

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with small costumes and they relate to the artwork and they can put

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them on and say, Oh, ballet skirt.

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How does a ballet dancer look?

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What do they look like when they do dance and stuff like that?

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So, yeah, I love to use the senses because I think that if we just talk

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like right now, we're just talking I think that we have a bigger chance

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that we forget what we've experienced.

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I think that when we actually give each other an opportunity to get down

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in our bodies and that's why slow looking And these sort of elements

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are important because they give us a chance to connect with our body.

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So the senses with using smell or feeling something or trying to engage

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with the artwork, I think it gets to be a more deeper experience with the art.

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And I think it also makes us more aware of what art can do or what it means to us.

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If that makes sense.

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If you use smell, it's one of our strongest senses because it tends to

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hit us in our memory sense in a way.

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I've had a tour about a lady, an artist, who smoked cigarettes and

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cigars so had tobacco with me when I made the tour because that's what

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her studio would have smelled like.

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And I've bought an artwork in a thrift shop and had a canvas that you can

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touch because I think that when you can connect with the artwork in these

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kind of ways, I think you remember the artwork in a deeper way and maybe connect

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with a memory or something like that.

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At the Bremen Art Museum I was in October, they had these sensory

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areas, sensory boxes for people who are visually challenged.

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But I saw a lot of other guests using these because you can touch the

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artwork and you're not usually allowed.

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So I think that was very beautiful.

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And just walking around observing what people started to talking talk about.

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Yeah, I love those as well.

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Whenever there's any invitation to use any other senses, I'm always diving in there.

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So can you tell us a little bit about you mentioned slow looking there.

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So how do you encourage slow looking?

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How do you encourage your groups to slow down?

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How do you encourage them to look for longer?

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I think it's about allowing the pause when I ask them, What do you see here?

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What do you notice here?

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And also, hopefully having built the trust they are allowing the break to

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be there or the pause to be there.

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But I think it's tough because I think that students often, are trying to figure

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out what does the lady want me to say now.

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So I think actually slow looking is something that we should encourage even

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more than what we're already doing.

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And that's why I say that the hour is a short period of time

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when you have to slow look.

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But I've done it.

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Actually by walking in nature where we have these silent

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walks and that's very effectful.

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And I don't know if it's easier outside.

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than inside in an art museum, but there's a difference.

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So, one of my things that I'm working on trying to encourage more that it's okay

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to look at something a little bit longer.

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I had an example of the other day where I asked the students, do you think that the

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artists who have used two years doing this would like for you just to look at it 30

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seconds and then walk to the next word.

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And they laugh and they say, no, because the artists have used a lot of time

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and thoughts and sketches and whatever.

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So, I think that it has again to do with connection in the way that you

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tell them about what slow looking is.

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And also telling them about what you're expecting from them so

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that they're not looking for the right answer or guess what's in

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your head or any of that as well.

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That's what, that's actually something I start all my presentations of myself

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with, that this is an open room and what they bring onto the conversation.

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That's what I.

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connect with and use.

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I actually had a situation yesterday with a class that was really a quiet

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high school class they just started.

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And I had a plan to talk about a specific work before we were done.

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And then then I heard two girls talking about two of the works next to it,

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and there was before they were sitting down and everything, and I just said,

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okay, you found something in this, tell us why did you talk about this?

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And then we had a whole conversation about that, and that was actually a

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really nice thing that you can catch on to what the students connect with.

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Yeah.

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And you're going off plan there, aren't you?

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So you're not being afraid to deviate from your plan and go, okay, something

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interesting happening over here.

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Yeah.

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Let's see what happens.

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Yeah.

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And sometimes also the conversation you have about a certain piece, it

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takes a longer time that you might have planned because then the conversation

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builds on And I love for the students to begin to listen to each other.

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I was at a course last year in Copenhagen at one of our national art museums and

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they Make a workshop that I've used since, and it's a great way that when you

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have an artwork and actually also want to get the kids to engage all of them,

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everybody can say something, you make groups and then you give them titles.

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And you have maybe a group that are theater instructors.

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And then you have a group that are politicians and biologists or whatever,

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and then you make them look at the piece in that way, and then they

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have to tell each other about what did you notice, and it's amazing

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what they details they find that

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. otherwise they wouldn't have noticed.

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And also, because they don't have the same assignment, they are actually more

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interested in what each other are saying.

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So that was a great to be introduced to, and I've used it since.

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I love that.

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Such a great idea, asking people to try on professions or and

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look at through that lens of that particular profession or person.

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That's great.

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Tell me about drawing yoga before we move on, cause I did want to get

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it in, cause it sounds fascinating.

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Yeah, and it is, I actually used it yesterday.

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I started up my art school again.

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And I don't know if there's other terms for it, but I usually in my my art

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school or maybe a tour in a museum, if there's room for it you get a piece of

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paper and a drawing plate and a crayon or a pencil or something like that.

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And then you lie down on the floor.

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with that.

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And I play some music or I tell a story.

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And then sometimes I have some meditation cards with shapes and sizes

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or whatever on, and then I can show them.

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Now you draw this and then they just draw.

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And I take another card and now you draw this and they just

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fill out the paper in that way.

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Sometimes I ask them to close their eyes and just listen to what

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I'm telling them with the music.

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And it's just a great way to just unwind.

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And I can tell that the kids love it.

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They just I had a girl yesterday, she was like, Oh, can we take some more cards?

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And the parents were there to get them.

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So they were not ready to stop.

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And I think it's, it also shows you when kids.

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They actually like the peace and quiet and they like to wind down

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and it's not performing anything.

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It's just drawing and it's not something that should be

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a finished work or whatever.

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But it's just a great way to yeah, to just be yourself.

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And they lie on the, under the tables or behind the chairs or

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whatever, but it's just their room and their space and their drawing.

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I love the sound of that.

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And I'd like to try it with adults as well.

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I think they'd enjoy it just as much.

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Yeah, exactly.

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Yeah.

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And what a great way to finish or round off a program.

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So we've talked about connection making, before, during, what

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about how you, you finish?

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How do you exit a program, making those lasting and meaningful

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connections with people?

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Yeah, usually either I can ask them what are the three main things that

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they take away and then just in the broad sense, asking them, and usually

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they're kids that tell you something.

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And maybe I round off with something about the artist, talking about how

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his life was or what his challenges was or something like that.

Speaker: 00:31:15

and sometimes I actually also do this with putting them in circles and an inner

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circle and an outer circle, and then they have partners and then tell each

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other what three things they notice.

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And then I again can walk around and I can listen and then I can ask them

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what did you mean by that and they can tell the class and so it depends

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on how much time I have, but usually there's much not much time in an hour.

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So it might be the closing thing just asking the class or telling

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something about the artist.

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And why do you think that's important?

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I mean, I think a lot of people listening will know that it's important to do, but

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quite often with the pace of a program, the thing that gets left is the rounding

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out, the good close, the nice ending.

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So why is it important?

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Think that the connection that you've built in the beginning It also has

Speaker: 00:32:09

to have a finish because of course we want them to come back to the museum.

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And I think the rounding of the workshop is, important in them again feeling seen.

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It shouldn't be rushed.

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So, and also when they articulate what three things they noticed or what

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they take away I take them Seriously.

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And it depends on the class, of course, if they're nine year

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olds, they want to say everything.

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And they're teenagers, they may not say that much.

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So, you have to prepare for that, of course.

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Yeah.

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And I think you're making those memories, aren't you?

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You're making people really just crystallize what it was about today

Speaker: 00:32:49

that I'm going to talk to someone about afterwards or remember.

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Yeah, and I think what our main assignment actually is, getting

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the kids to have nuances.

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It's about talking about art because now we've asked them to look at

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art, but we are asking them to have a greater vocabulary about art.

Speaker: 00:33:12

So, that's why I think it's important not to forget this.

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Yeah.

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And we've We're going to wrap it up now because we only have a certain amount

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of time together as well, like we would with a group, but perhaps you can share

Speaker: 00:33:25

with people how they can find out more about you and get in touch with you.

Speaker: 00:33:30

Yeah, I have a project that I'm working on with an old colleague.

Speaker: 00:33:35

We want to do more about it, but it's called Oplevkulturen Samm.

Speaker: 00:33:38

Experience culture together.

Speaker: 00:33:40

It's a Instagram and on Facebook and I've sent you a link.

Speaker: 00:33:46

And we want to do more about that.

Speaker: 00:33:47

But there we can be connected.

Speaker: 00:33:50

And also of course, on LinkedIn, you can find me under Anja Høegh.

Speaker: 00:33:54

And of course through my museum where I work, right now Museum Salling.

Speaker: 00:33:59

It's also a possibility to connect with me.

Speaker: 00:34:01

And I would really love to hear from people.

Speaker: 00:34:05

Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and sharing your wealth

Speaker: 00:34:08

of experience and lots of ideas and practical tips and tools for people.

Speaker: 00:34:13

Yeah, it's been great to talk to you, Claire.

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Thank you so much.

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Cheers.

Speaker: 00:34:19

So a huge thank you to Anja for being on the podcast today.

Speaker: 00:34:23

Be sure to check out the show notes to learn more about her work.

Speaker: 00:34:27

If you've enjoyed the show, please make a one off donation via the link

Speaker: 00:34:31

in the show notes and contribute to the ongoing costs of running the podcast.

Speaker: 00:34:36

And don't forget to sign up to be the first to hear the latest news about

Speaker: 00:34:41

my upcoming book, The Art Engager.

Speaker: 00:34:44

Reimagining guided experiences in museums.

Speaker: 00:34:47

Visit the show notes or my website to sign up.

Speaker: 00:34:51

That just about wraps up this episode.

Speaker: 00:34:54

Thank you so much for tuning in.

Speaker: 00:34:56

I'll see you next time.

Speaker: 00:34:57

Bye.

Speaker: 00:35:01

You've been listening to The Art Engager podcast with me, Claire Bown.

Speaker: 00:35:05

For more resources and inspiration, go to thinkingmuseum.

Speaker: 00:35:10

com and follow me on social media at Thinking Museum for regular

Speaker: 00:35:15

insights and practical tips on the art of engagement in museums.

Speaker: 00:35:20

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