Transforming museum experiences through drawing with Jessica Hartshorn

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Hello and welcome to a new episode of The Art Engager.

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Today I'm chatting with illustrator and educator Jessica Hartshorn.

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But before our chat, if you haven't already, do go back and listen to the last

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two solo episodes created to celebrate the launch of my book, The Art Engager.

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Episode 1 3 6.

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Episode 6 explores what questioning practices are, why I created

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them, and how they can help you to create engaging museum experiences.

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And episode 137 does a deep dive on one of the key questioning

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practices in my book, the universal.

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Listen in to discover how the universal came about and how you can use it

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with art and objects in the museum.

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And please help me spread the word about my book.

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You can do this in a number of ways.

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You can give a rating or write a short review on Amazon, Goodreads

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or your favourite book platform.

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You can post a photo or video on social media with The

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Art Engager in its new home.

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And do tag me in, I'd love to see it.

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So, back to today's guest, Jessica Hartshorn.

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Jessi is an illustrator based in the UK who specialises in creating

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beautiful, engaging artwork for the cultural and heritage sector.

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As a former museum educator, Jessi has a unique perspective.

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She understands both the creative and the operational sides of museum work.

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And Jessi uses this knowledge and experience to design family trails,

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maps, educational resources, and more, that are not only visually engaging,

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but also practical and effective in creating deeper connections with museum

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collections, even the unloved objects.

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So in this episode, we explore Jessi's journey from museum educator to designer.

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and focus on how she uses art to make history and heritage accessible and fun.

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Jessi shares insights on her Draw Along sessions, designed to help participants

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overcome their reluctance or hesitation around drawing, to slow down and to

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observe artworks and objects in new ways.

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So listen in for lots of practical and useful advice on incorporating creative

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activities into museum experiences and also for Jessi's thoughts on how

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drawing can transform visitor engagement.

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Hi Jessi and welcome to The Art Engager podcast.

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Hello.

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So could you tell our listeners who you are and what you do?

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Yeah, I'm Jessica Hartshorn.

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My business name is Jessi Illustrates and I'm an illustrator.

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I mostly work for museums and galleries and create illustrated trails and

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packs and bring collections to life.

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I know that you started as a museum educator, so can you tell us a

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bit about your journey from being a museum educator, to a freelance

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illustrator working with museums?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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So, way back when I was a child, I've always loved art.

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So, I actually studied illustration and I graduated and started doing a

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little bit of freelance illustration.

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But like a lot of people, quite a few years ago, I fell

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into museums by accident.

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A job came up as an apprenticeship and I started working at

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an art centre and museum.

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As a Apprentice Education Officer and progressed to my next job in

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rugby at Rugby Art Gallery Museum.

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I moved on to being an Education Manager, Learning and Outreach

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Officer and I loved that job.

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I absolutely fell in love with museums.

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I've always liked history, I studied it at A level, but it's a whole new

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world of looking at collections and caring for collections, and then

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helping people to appreciate them and understand more about them, which

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was obviously my role in education.

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I absolutely loved that for over 16 years, so quite a long time, but towards

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the end of that journey, I started to want to be creative myself again.

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So in my role I was doing a lot of facilitating other people being

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creative, working with collections and artists together and putting together

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collaborations, so projects and events.

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So it's a lot of enabling other people, which I loved, and it was

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still creative, but it's not the same as making and doing myself.

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So while I was still in my role, I started painting again, and it

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was just more for fun initially, just not really painted for me.

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So 16 years.

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And just to get back into it, and I started a secret Instagram account

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where nobody knew it was me, and I started posting on there just, it's

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almost like to set myself, be a bit accountable I suppose, I said I'm

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going to post two, three, artworks a week, which is quite ambitious I think

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but I did do it and it made me paint.

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And then after a little while I applied for a big mural in Birmingham at the

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MAC which is a big art centre so It was four 13 metre walls, so it's huge.

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Just off a whim really, and I got it.

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I couldn't believe I got it.

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And as a result of that, all of a sudden, a lot of my museum network

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people saw that I could paint, and it kick started this new journey for

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me that I could use both the heritage aspect and my illustration skills to,

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to work in the sector in a new way.

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What does your role include these days?

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So you've now fully made the transition to freelance illustrator.

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What sorts of things do you do on a daily basis?

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So, I use my knowledge and experience working in museums, and I take that and

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create things like trails for both schools and families, and also adults, and I've

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also created them for ESOL learners, so adults with English as a second language.

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And I've created things like maps and floor vinyls and wall vinyls too.

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I'm just doing some characters at the moment that are going to be

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made into products for museum shops.

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So a real range and breadth of different things.

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But one of my skills obviously working in learning, I did quite a lot of

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delivery within the museum itself.

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So I also collaborate with museums to maybe run workshops and test

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the trails as well as illustrate and put the content together.

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So it's quite a kind of unique skill really to be able to actually understand

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how they work, like physically work and practically work, as well as doing

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this pretty visual things as well.

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So you talked about creating illustrated trails for some museums there.

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How do you go beyond simple treasure hunt approaches and how

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do you create actual meaningful engagement through these trails?

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That's a really good question.

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For me, I love heritage, so as soon as I see an object, I

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get really excited about it.

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So I've already got that kind of understanding and appreciation for things

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like how we care for collections, how we physically display them, how we might

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want to find out what they're made out of and why they might have survived, who

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owned them and the stories behind them.

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So I've already got all that kind of in depth knowledge from my museum background.

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So I bring all of that to my trails and try and I embed that into them.

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So for example when I'm creating the trails, one of the first thing

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I do is actually walk the journey and look at the practicalities.

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So.

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Are the objects that maybe the staff have identified maybe too high or

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too low, or is there a glare on the glass from the lighting so the

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children won't be able to see them?

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Because before I start illustrating and doing all the other things, I want

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to know that it's going to flow nicely and that everything is accessible.

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So that's one thing I bring straight away from knowing how

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we display and use the objects.

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Also, is the object going to stay out?

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Is it going to get rotated and put in the store?

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So that's a quite key thing if all this time and money potentially

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have gone into it and it's going to be taken somewhere else.

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So that's something, again, I bring that knowledge with me to

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ask the right questions, I suppose, right at the very beginning with

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the team that I'm working with.

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And then the content itself, I try and bring the different learning styles

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that children might have into it.

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So rather than just running around finding something and not really engaging

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with The collections themselves I try and use the collections, so illustrate

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them and maybe make them into characters or focus on something in particular

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within the drawing but then I also ask questions I do, like, missing word

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Texts, so they have to read some of the information and find the missing word.

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I do illustrations where the children have to finish off the design of

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a pot, for example, or a tile.

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And I just try and make it Really rich in terms of visual, maybe using some

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numbers in something, trying to use lots of different ways of learning

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and engaging people, rather than just running around and finding some things.

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There's always a place for that, to just get people into museums and start off

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perhaps at a lower level, but particularly when I've done school related trails.

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We've tried to maybe link it to the curriculum as well, just make it

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really varied in the way that the children engage with the objects.

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And what sorts of trails have you worked on recently?

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So I'm just finishing one at the moment, which is really exciting.

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And we are hopefully going on to make products and other things from

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the character that I've developed.

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I've done quite a lot of that this year where I've developed a character

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specific In a bespoke way for a venue.

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And this is a medieval elephant, and it's for a medieval guild hall and one of the

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lovely things I get to do is that problem solving element where the staff will

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say 'right we've got a logo already and it's an elephant and got a castle and I

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can't see how we can put those two things together' and so my elephant character is

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wearing a bit like a robe with a castle on it so he's standing up with his hands free

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so he can hold things and that was my kind of way of using my historical knowledge

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doing a little bit of research about what.

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what they wore in that era and putting all those pieces together.

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And the trail it goes into a medieval kitchen and an armory

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and some really beautiful and interesting places in the space.

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Looks at things like witch marks on the wall that have been carved in

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and yeah, lots of textural things.

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We did a lot of like, Touching and feeling, you know, kneel on the floor

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and feel the texture of the tiles.

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So incorporating our senses, listening and smelling in the kitchen and

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then using their own ideas as well.

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So, there's some signatures that have been carved into the wall, like graffiti, and

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we get them to design their own medieval signature using this style of writing.

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So that was really lovely.

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It was beautiful aesthetically to take pieces of stained glass window

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and things like that to illustrate.

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And yeah, I'm really excited to see it come together.

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And when you're designing a trail, something that I was just thinking

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about then was what comes first?

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Is it the logistics and the objects or does the design come first?

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How do you approach it?

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Always the objects for me.

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I think, yeah, objects and logistics, because otherwise it just doesn't work.

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And that's why I love testing them with children, because they're super honest.

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'I can't find it, Miss' or 'this is too hard'.

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So when I test.

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With children, I do get them to be, at the beginning we'd say, your role

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here is really important, you're going to influence how other people see

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this, and if there's anything that doesn't work, tell me and be honest.

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And that's really helpful because you want it to work, you want it

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to be, when you put so much effort in, you want it to be successful.

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So I like to know physically it will work, there's a good flow, obviously

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the objects are key, but they could be.

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What people would perceive as dull objects that I can then

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make them more interesting, that's kind of part of my role.

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And that's where the aesthetics meet in the middle, because

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that's in a way a joy for me.

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If someone goes, this is in our collection, what is classed

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as a really dull object?

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Can you make it interesting?

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And that's like, yeah, bring it on, bring on that challenge.

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So the aesthetics is really important from that point of view as well as of

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Making people more engaged in something.

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We've just done a test in a canal museum and the children were

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looking at the objects around the site and every single child was

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walking past a case of canal art.

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plates and I think it's because there was glass in front of it, there wasn't

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anything massively engaging about it.

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They were going for everything they could touch and feel or go inside

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or that's what was engaging them.

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So now I'm like right, those plates, we're going to get those children loving

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those plates, I'm going to find a way.

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Because I find them really beautiful as well.

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So we're looking at how we can potentially, that they've got ribbon

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threaded through them, the plates, the ceramic plate, and we could get

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replicas that could be put in front of these cases, and the children can

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thread the ribbon through themselves, and then I'll hand paint some plates

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as well that they can engage with.

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So yeah, the aesthetic is important sometimes to add value in the

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sense of making it more interesting and accessible for people.

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I love the challenge of working with boring objects.

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I did a whole episode about how to work with boring objects because

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I think there are so many corners of museums that we overlook.

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We may just pass by, we may think, oh, I'm not sure how I

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could work with that object.

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And I like.

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Flipping that on its head, as you say, and the challenge of it and thinking about

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well, how could we work with that object?

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Are there different ways that we could look at it?

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What is it about that object that perhaps is making people just turn

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away from it or not look at it.

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What are the things that we could do to really get engagement there?

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So I love the fact that you're bringing love to unwanted corners

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of museums and galleries as well.

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And I think your love and your passion for drawing extends into other areas as well.

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So you run these amazing draw along sessions in galleries.

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Can you tell us a little bit about how these work and what makes them successful?

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Yeah, so they came out of lockdown, really.

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I started doing daily drawalongs online and live drawalongs in lockdown.

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And when we came out of lockdown, I thought, oh, I've got this audience now

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of people that want to draw along with me.

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And a few galleries approached me.

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To do them live in the galleries and I absolutely jumped at the chance,

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knowing that using my background again I know how to unpick paintings

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and really delve deeply into them by asking lots of questions, but

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also with drawing, especially if you're doing something from life

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drawing, still life, you have to look.

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And I teach a lot of workshops as well.

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And as part of that, we do an activity where we have a

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looking part for 30 seconds.

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So before we do anything, before pencil touches the paper, we look for 30 seconds.

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And children find that quite difficult, especially with attention spans nowadays,

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but it's so important to look at the texture, look at the shape, look

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at the shadow, does it look heavy?

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Does it look light?

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We talk about all those different things that we're looking for.

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And we do that in these draw alongs.

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So we maybe choose an artwork that we're going to be inspired by.

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We have a chat about it, thinking about the materials used, thinking

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about the atmosphere maybe that it has.

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And then I'll choose something from the artwork that we'll all draw together.

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And I break it down into shapes so it's quite step by step.

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And it's amazing, I was so shocked because obviously in lockdown

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I can't see the responses.

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When I'm drawing a line you just have nice feedback but you don't

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see them come to life drawing themselves and how proud they are.

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So, when they've completed something, especially if they think they're

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'not a good drawer' in quotes.

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So I've absolutely loved doing those.

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What are some of the responses that you get from these sessions then from people?

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I can imagine the pride in having completed stuff, but also do they reflect

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on how they engage with the object itself, the artwork or the sculpture?

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Yeah, definitely.

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I think that initially it's sometimes shocking that they've

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managed to achieve something.

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A lot of the comments are, 'oh yeah, if I didn't really think about it, if I

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just break it down into shapes, it seems a lot more simple and straightforward'.

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People get overwhelmed by looking at something as a whole, which I think

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we do with artwork as well sometimes, where if we just focus on one, smaller

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element first and break that down into smaller parts it's a lot easier.

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And particularly with grandparents, I get a lot of grandparents bringing the

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children and initially they're just like, 'oh no, we'll just, we'll hang back'.

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And they're doing the activity and by the second drawing,

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they're eager and going for it.

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And a lot of the grandparents are actually people as well that will

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say, I've learned so much, I would always say I can't draw and I'm

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really pleased with what I've created.

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And yeah, I do hope that then they go away and look at the artwork in a different

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way that they can slowly look at an artwork and unpick elements and have

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more confidence in drawing, generally.

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Yeah, I think drawing is one of those things.

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It's always the same when I suggest in my workshops, if I suggest anybody

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does any drawing or if they write any poetry, there's always a kind

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of, either an element of fear passes through people's faces or a kind of

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eye roll that you get, so there's a hesitancy sometimes about drawing.

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So how do you really help Participants of all ages, like you just mentioned,

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the grandparents, the adults, as well as the children, overcome

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their reluctance and really build their confidence in these sessions.

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So I always start off every session with a few games, and they're very silly

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games generally in the sense of we do drawing with our eyes closed, for example.

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And so I start off drawing a circle, then we all close our eyes, and I'm

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quite theatrical when I run these sessions, I'm a little bit over the

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top and I'll come on everybody and I'm checking on you and that sort of thing,

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make sure you don't open your eyes.

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And.

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Make it really fun, to start off with, make it fun.

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Make it a bit silly, so everybody's is going to look ridiculous,

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whatever you do, because you're drawing it with your eyes closed.

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And that straight away seems to break down barriers if I can't draw, because

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it doesn't matter, it's a bit of fun.

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So we start off with those sorts of games.

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We do a game where I get people to draw three random weird shapes.

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Then they swap that with a partner and then they have to make

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those shapes into something new.

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So it could be a new creature or an object or a building.

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And again, we're using our creativity, we're using our imagination, but there's

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no pressure to make it look right.

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It is what it is.

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And just doing those sort of games initially to break down those barriers of

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it doesn't matter, seems to really help.

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And then from that, I'll start.

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With the draw alongs where I'll step by step draw a bit of

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something and they follow along.

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And generally, I mean, I've had really young children create the most amazing

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drawings following along with me.

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And I think it's that comfort blanket of knowing they're doing

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what I'm doing, gives them that confidence to not be fearful.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And it's not that fear of the blank page as well because they're following along

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a process and they're following you.

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And I think it's all about creating the space as well.

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So if you were providing the instructions, but not creating

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the environment that was warm and welcoming, it wouldn't work as well.

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So it's a combination of the two that really creates the magic, I think,

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and makes people relax and feel that this is something that they can do.

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Yeah, and I always try and leave it open for, Their own ideas as well.

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So it might be that there's a framework that we create.

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Say it was, we did one linked to owls with a Quentin Blake exhibition

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I was working on last year.

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And we created characters that almost interacted with each other.

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So I got them to create facial expressions for me.

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So this owl is going to be cross.

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So show me how you might do that do that with your eyebrows and getting

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them to, with their hands, make their eyebrows in a cross shape and get them

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really interacted in my drawing as well.

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So it's not just follow me for the whole time.

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I'll also say, right, how could we do this?

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What do you think that facial expression would look like?

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And then we'll get to a point where, like freestyle, you can add your

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own accessories and you can add...

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it's a windy day.

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So what would you put on on the character, would he have a

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scarf flowing in the background?

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And so I try and get them to, once they've got that framework and

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they're really confident, they can start to add their own things.

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And through that, we start to do a bit of storytelling as well,

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and with their characters and a relationship between two drawings as

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well, how they might be interacting and one's happy, one's sad, why?

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And get them to come up with the stories.

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So yeah, it's really fun.

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I love it.

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so you have this real passion for drawing and encouraging people

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to draw, I can really see that.

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So what role can drawing play in really helping visitors to engage with the

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objects in our collection, but also to help them slow down and notice more?

Speaker: 00:22:48

I think within the trails, it's something I've had a lot of teachers mention.

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Again, a bit like you said, when they, when you say you're going to

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draw, They get really frightened and teachers have done that as well.

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When we've done consultation earlier on, before I created a trail, when

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I've said, oh, we're going to do some creative activities within it.

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And they've gone, oh, but our kids hate drawing.

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I always try and make, again, the activities more fun and

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they're not just a blank page.

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So an example of another trail that I've done recently, we had

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about four different elements that, within it, that were creative.

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One was an illustration that I created and the children had to finish it off.

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So they were looking at something in front of them, and they had to look at

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the shapes and add the shapes within.

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an illustration I'd already done.

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So all of a sudden that wasn't frightening anymore, because they weren't having

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to draw this whole massive sculpture, they only had to add smaller elements.

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And then another one was, we had a shoemaker, and I illustrated a Victorian

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boot, and then we did some rubbings, because it was outside this particular

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one, we did some rubbings on trees within the boot to create the texture.

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And again, It all of a sudden wasn't frightening anymore.

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So I think some of the, both the drawing and anything creative really,

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I think it's sometimes helping people to take away that blank canvas and

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again break it down into smaller steps.

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Yeah, so at the same time it's actually encouraging them to notice

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more details in the world, isn't it?

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So drawing is observation when you look at it, there's a link between the two.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And I love teaching life drawing as well We often say it's a bit like learning

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to drive when you're looking in your mirror constantly, you should be looking

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at the object, and then your artwork and then your object and then your

Speaker: 00:24:40

artwork because your brain, looks at something often and then you think you

Speaker: 00:24:45

know, you're going from your memory, but it's not actually right so it's

Speaker: 00:24:48

that constant going back and checking and that helps you have to slow down,

Speaker: 00:24:53

you have to do that to enable you to, especially if you're doing it from life..

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When I do a lot of drawing there's the two elements really, there's the

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there's sort of drawing from still life or real life, and where you're pretty

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much copying, I would say and that's great, and there's a place for that.

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And then there's the other element where we're using an object to perhaps

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be the inspiration for a new artwork, a bit like you were saying with

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poetry, using it as inspiration, and both have really important places.

Speaker: 00:25:22

The first, it's really useful to understand an object by Drawing and

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looking, because you're looking at the physical shape, the texture, what it

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might be made out of, is it heavy, is it weighted, you can see that from a shadow,

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and there's so much you can learn by just looking and drawing the object as

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it is, but then there's the other aspect of, well, What Maybe the story behind

Speaker: 00:25:44

it, who owned it, or where's it come from, or create a new story, what you

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might think it might have come from, or what you might do with it, or whatever.

Speaker: 00:25:54

So there's those two elements of almost like your imaginary element,

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and then the real thing, and both have such an important place, but

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you can only do either by looking, and looking really carefully.

Speaker: 00:26:08

Absolutely, and how do museums create the environment for this to happen.

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So I'm intrigued as to how open museums are to host drawing events, how I'm also

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interested, I think, in how things are changing, how museums are using drawing

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and illustration to engage visitors.

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What trends are you seeing in how museums are using drawing?

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I definitely think that over the years I've been working in museums,

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they're more open to working with artists like myself to bring people

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in that can run different things.

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I was just, I work at a place called Compton Verney in the Midlands and they're

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running a neon life drawing session.

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So it's all glow in the dark, which is fabulous.

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So I think there's more and more places that are running drawing based activities.

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I think there's some fair stills in some places.

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Maybe not quite understanding how it could work.

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And I think, just ask artists, they're going to have some amazing ideas of

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seeing your collection and go, we could do this or we could do that.

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So I think having those conversations are really important and Potentially

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things like networking events for museums to invite artists in to just have a

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chat about different opportunities, because that's their job to problem

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solve and be creative and think of these amazing, exciting things that can

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bring in new audiences and engage with collections in different and unique ways.

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So yeah, there's definitely an opportunity and I do see that more

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and more museums are open to do that.

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However, I've seen a lot of museums lose their education officers and have

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less and less capacity, less funding.

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So.

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One of the reasons I've been quite busy this year, unfortunately for me, I

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suppose, is that people have lost their staff and I've been brought in to create

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trails for schools because they haven't got any learning staff to deliver anymore.

Speaker: 00:28:10

So these packs I'm creating are being downloaded by the

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schools and are self led.

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So illustration and trails and that sort of thing can be used to supplement

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what's there, but you know, they can also be used as alternatives, I

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suppose, for teachers to have access.

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I mean, it's tricky, I say that, but a lot of the schools I spoke to, I've just done

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a project where we created three trails in a museum for all their different past

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projects and past workshops and actually the school said they wouldn't have visited

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at all, if they hadn't had the trails.

Speaker: 00:28:45

So it's making sure that they are still being engaged and still

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coming and having an option.

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So, so yeah, it's really sad in that sense, but there are

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lots of people using them.

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in positive ways and still using them when they have got offices as well.

Speaker: 00:29:02

Yeah, and it's still important to enable those self guided visits where

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there aren't the staff available to support them as well, and to do it

Speaker: 00:29:09

in a way that encourages that deeper engagement, that observation, all the

Speaker: 00:29:13

things that you were talking about.

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Now, I'm sure there's lots of people listening who are interested

Speaker: 00:29:20

in incorporating more drawing activities, so what advice

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would you give anyone listening?

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I think, as I said, there's an opportunity to work with your local

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artists if you've got a community of local artists to get people involved.

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There's also lots of really great bodies out there, so if you're not

Speaker: 00:29:38

aware of it, the Big Draw in the UK, and I think it's also international

Speaker: 00:29:42

now, has a real range of artists.

Speaker: 00:29:44

Resources on their website that you can download.

Speaker: 00:29:46

They also have a range of books which have lists and lists of different drawing

Speaker: 00:29:51

games and activities that you can use in cultural settings and heritage settings.

Speaker: 00:29:56

And I think it's thinking about your objects.

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Little bits outside of the box and not being fearful of,

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yeah, using creative methods.

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But I think it is about having those tools to, as you said earlier, having a

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black, a blank piece of paper is really scary and it's tricky to engage people.

Speaker: 00:30:16

So it's using different resources to find new ways of

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interpreting drawings and creating.

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new artwork, using tools that can help you, because it is quite overwhelming

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if you're not from that background.

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My brain automatically thinks in that way, and so when I, sometimes I've done,

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what I would class as quite basic things really, creative activities, and some

Speaker: 00:30:42

museum staff are like, oh my gosh, this is so exciting, and I'm like, really?

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To me that seems quite straightforward and basic, but it's because

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they're not from that background.

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So it's either getting in.

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Those people, those specialists, or finding the resources

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that can support you.

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But it can be done and it doesn't have to cost very much at all.

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That's the other thing actually I'd point out is materials

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can make a real big impact.

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And I know it's hard with funding and things, but I would say the higher the

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quality of the material, the better experience people get, and that's

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not necessarily for every single thing that you do, but especially

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if you're offering workshops.

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When I do school sessions, I try and give them the best quality that I can

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afford within the budget, because when I go into schools and they've got the

Speaker: 00:31:26

most horrific brushes that are all matted and bits falling out of them...

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Glue in

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them.

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Yeah, exactly.

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Glue in them and glitter in them.

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And they expect the children to create something Wonderful.

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It's like, well, it's just not going to happen.

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You wouldn't yourself.

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So I always take in good quality brushes, good quality paint painting on good

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quality paper where, you know, we can, and when it's suitable and what they

Speaker: 00:31:51

then achieve is going to be far better.

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So that's something just to bear in mind that, and also children get

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really excited when they've got really, Beautiful materials by taking some rolls

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of black paper and then some really gorgeous oil pastels, and then they see

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that contrasting colour and texture, they get really excited, just like we

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would as adults when we see sparkly things or whatever in a workshop.

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So yeah, it's just something to consider.

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And also I would urge everybody listening to this to think that

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this is not just something for kids either, so this is something for

Speaker: 00:32:24

all ages, and it's so rewarding seeing adults engage their creative

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side, especially when they're young.

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When you hear people saying that phrase, oh, I didn't know you could

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do this in a museum, isn't it?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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I do a lot of work with adults and it's so rewarding to see somebody

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that all their life, probably from school, they've been told they can't

Speaker: 00:32:48

do art, they're rubbish, and then they find something that fits them.

Speaker: 00:32:52

them.

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Because we're all creative in our own way, it just might be that some people

Speaker: 00:32:57

are more drawn to drawing and other people are amazing at collage or clay or printing

Speaker: 00:33:04

and it's finding what works for you.

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So yeah, it's really important at any age.

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I do a lot of work with adults living with dementia in museums and I was

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doing a session yesterday and we went and saw an exhibition and then

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we came and created some artwork.

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inspired by that work.

Speaker: 00:33:22

And for a lot of these people, they may have been, say, an architect in a

Speaker: 00:33:26

younger life, and they've lost a lot of their ability to do a lot of things,

Speaker: 00:33:31

including sometimes mobility within their hands and sort of dexterity.

Speaker: 00:33:36

Yet, they might try something new with me, such as printmaking, and They're

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amazing at it and they're so pleased that they've achieved something when they've

Speaker: 00:33:45

lost so much already and especially when they're in a partnership of, say, maybe

Speaker: 00:33:50

husband wife relationship, they've seen this person change so much, so to see them

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enjoy an exhibition and then, or a museum collection, and then to create something,

Speaker: 00:34:01

it's really important, it has such value.

Speaker: 00:34:04

People can't Don't always understand how much value that

Speaker: 00:34:06

can add to somebody's life.

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Wonderful.

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I think we're going to leave it there.

Speaker: 00:34:11

That's a really nice note to end on.

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Where can people learn more about your work?

Speaker: 00:34:17

So I have a website.

Speaker: 00:34:18

It's www.

Speaker: 00:34:19

jessicahartshorn.com And I also am on social media, particularly

Speaker: 00:34:25

Instagram because it's so visual.

Speaker: 00:34:27

And you can also find me on Instagram at Jessi_Illustrates.

Speaker: 00:34:33

Brilliant.

Speaker: 00:34:33

Thank you so much for coming on the podcast and sharing all the

Speaker: 00:34:37

lovely details about your work.

Speaker: 00:34:39

No problem, thank you.

Speaker: 00:34:42

And a huge thank you to Jessi for joining me on the podcast today.

Speaker: 00:34:46

Be sure to check out the show notes for more about her inspiring work.

Speaker: 00:34:51

And if you've enjoyed this episode, or if any episode in our back catalogue

Speaker: 00:34:56

has resonated with you, please consider supporting The Art Engager.

Speaker: 00:35:01

You can now join us on Patreon with a simple monthly subscription

Speaker: 00:35:06

to help keep this content coming.

Speaker: 00:35:08

Thanks to all our supporters, you're really making a difference.

Speaker: 00:35:13

Finally, don't forget to visit my website to learn more about The Art Engager book.

Speaker: 00:35:19

Available now wherever books are sold.

Speaker: 00:35:22

That's it for this episode.

Speaker: 00:35:24

Thank you so much for tuning in.

Speaker: 00:35:26

See you next time.

Speaker: 00:35:28

Bye.