Episode 149

Art, Play and Joy at Compton Verney with Geraldine Collinge

In this episode host Claire Bown talks with Geraldine Collinge, Chief Executive at Compton Verney, about their bold approach to creating genuinely engaging cultural spaces through play, accessibility and joy.

Geraldine shares how this unique 'art space in a park' in Warwickshire brings together a historic Robert Adam mansion, 120 acres of Capability Brown landscape, and six distinctive collections ranging from Chinese bronzes to British folk art. She explains how Compton Verney's core values - particularly their inclusion of 'fun' - guide everything from exhibition design to community engagement initiatives.

Listen to discover their multisensory approach to gallery spaces that incorporates touch, smell and sound, doubling visitor numbers to their Naples collection. Learn about their 'play first' philosophy that encourages visitors of all ages to engage meaningfully with art through creative exploration, and hear about their 97% discounted community passes that are breaking down barriers to access.

Geraldine also shares insights into how they're connecting art and nature through immersive experiences like 'Breathing with the Forest,' creating what she describes as a restorative experience that ultimately delivers on their promise: giving visitors 'a day full of joy.'

The Art Engager is written and presented by Claire Bown. Editing is by Matt Jacobs and Claire Bown. Music by Richard Bown. Support the show on Patreon and find more resources at thinkingmuseum.com

SHOWNOTES

 https://www.comptonverney.org.uk/

Breathing with the Forest (now closed) - https://www.comptonverney.org.uk/whats-on/breathing-with-the-forest/

What we do - https://www.comptonverney.org.uk/our-story/what-we-do/

Geraldine Collinge on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/geraldinecollinge/

‘The Art Engager: Reimagining Guided Experiences in Museums‘ is now available worldwide through your favourite online platforms and retailers. Buy it here on Amazon.com: https://tinyurl.com/buytheartengager

The Art Engager book website: https://www.theartengager.com/

Support the show with a simple monthly subscription on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/TheArtEngager

Transcript
Claire Bown:

Hello and welcome to the Art Engager podcast with me, Claire Bown.

Claire Bown:

I'm here to share techniques and tools to help you engage with your audience

Claire Bown:

and bring art objects and ideas to life.

Claire Bown:

So let's dive into this week's show.

Claire Bown:

Hello, and welcome to a new episode of The Art Engager.

Claire Bown:

I'm Claire Bown, and today I'm chatting with Geraldine Collinge, Chief Executive

Claire Bown:

at Compton Verney, a unique art space in a park located in Warwickshire in the UK.

Claire Bown:

But before we dive in, a quick word about my book, The Art Engager Reimagining

Claire Bown:

Guided Experiences in Museums.

Claire Bown:

Now, a huge thank you to everyone who's supported the book since its release.

Claire Bown:

I'm so grateful for your enthusiasm and your feedback,

Claire Bown:

and I'd also love your support.

Claire Bown:

So please consider leaving a review on Amazon or sharing what you like

Claire Bown:

about the book on social media.

Claire Bown:

And if you are reading it with a book club, do get in touch.

Claire Bown:

I'd be happy to offer a free Q&A session for your group.

Claire Bown:

Now let me introduce today's guest.

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Geraldine Collinge brings a wealth of experience in the arts,

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including 12 years as director at the Royal Shakespeare Company.

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She now leads Compton Verney, an extraordinary cultural organization set in

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the rural heart of England, just south of Warwickshire and near Stratford upon Avon.

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For listeners unfamiliar with Compton Verney, it's a place that defies easy

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categorization, part art gallery, part historic house, part landscape

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garden, and 100% dedicated to creating meaningful encounters with art and nature.

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It's housed in a historic Robert Adam mansion, surrounded by 120 acres of

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Capability Brown designed landscape.

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So founded by Sir Peter Moores just over 20 years ago, Compton Verney

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has transformed from a ruined stately home into a vibrant, contemporary

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art space with six distinctive collections ranging from ancient

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Chinese bronzes to British folk art.

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What makes it really special is its playful accessible approach, which

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welcomes everyone into the world of art.

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So if you're curious about how cultural spaces can become more accessible,

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engaging, and meaningful for diverse audiences, this conversation is for you.

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Compton Verney is really re-imagining art engagement by putting values

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like inclusivity, boldness, and fun at the heart of everything they do.

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So in today's episode, Geraldine shares how Compton Vern's core

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values really guide their work.

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We talk about their play first approach, their multisensory

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exhibitions that have doubled visitor numbers and how they're creating deep

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connections between art and nature.

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This conversation is full of inspiring insights into what it takes to create

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genuinely engaging cultural spaces.

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Enjoy.

Claire Bown:

Hi Geraldine, and welcome to the Art Engager Podcast.

Geraldine Collinge:

Hi.

Geraldine Collinge:

Hi.

Geraldine Collinge:

Hi.

Geraldine Collinge:

It's great to be here.

Geraldine Collinge:

Thanks for having me.

Claire Bown:

You're very, very welcome.

Claire Bown:

So could you tell our listeners a little bit about who you are and what you do?

Claire Bown:

I'm

Geraldine Collinge:

Geraldine Collinge and I've got the pleasure of being

Geraldine Collinge:

Chief Executive at Compton Verney.

Geraldine Collinge:

So before Compton Verney, I'd been at the Royal Shakespeare Company in Stratford,

Geraldine Collinge:

which is just down the road from here.

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And I'd been there for over 10 years and was thinking about, what next.

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And I saw the job advertised at Compton Verney.

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In fact, I heard that the job was gonna be coming up at Compton Verney

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and thought, That's the job for me.

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I already loved Compton Verney.

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I was a member, had even collaborated on an exhibition about Shakespeare.

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It felt absolutely the right move for me and I was really delighted

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that, yeah, through a proper process, was lucky enough to be offered the

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job about two and a half years ago.

Claire Bown:

Excellent.

Claire Bown:

You are in Warwickshire, which for our listeners who are not from the UK, we

Claire Bown:

have listeners all around the world.

Claire Bown:

Warwickshire is a county in the center in the Midlands of England.

Claire Bown:

Could you tell us a little bit about Compton Verney and what makes it special?

Geraldine Collinge:

So Compton Verney is an art space in a park, and the park is

Geraldine Collinge:

120 acres of Capability Brown landscape.

Geraldine Collinge:

And we've also got a Robert Adam House on the landscape.

Geraldine Collinge:

So it is a kind of really beautiful historic location, but

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then with contemporary activity.

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So we're a young organization in a historic place.

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We connect people with art, nature, and creativity.

Geraldine Collinge:

And Compton Verney is one of those really kind of extraordinary places.

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It's playful, it is surprising.

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Makes for a really brilliant day out.

Geraldine Collinge:

And like you say, we're right in the middle of the country, so we're at

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the south of Warwickshire, nearly in Oxfordshire, like I said, near Stratford

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upon Avon, near Leamington Coventry.

Geraldine Collinge:

So we've got this rural location that is completely idyllic, but actually

Geraldine Collinge:

also quite near urban environment.

Geraldine Collinge:

You know, it's a pretty special place

Claire Bown:

and it's not always been open to the public, has it?

Claire Bown:

Last year it was your 20th anniversary, is that right?

Claire Bown:

Geraldine Collinge: That's completely right.

Claire Bown:

So we've got quite an unusual background in that we were set up by Sir Peter

Claire Bown:

Moores, who was part of the family that owned a retail group, Littlewoods,

Claire Bown:

which some people might remember.

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And his family also invented something called the Pools, which is where

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people used to bet on what the scores were gonna be in football matches.

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So Sir Peter Moores was the son of this fortune and he inherited a fortune and

Claire Bown:

he started to work in the business.

Claire Bown:

And we are told that his father said, 'oh, you know, you are okay at

Claire Bown:

business, but have you thought about doing anything else?' So I think his

Claire Bown:

interests were much more in the arts.

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And he loved opera and he loved visual art, and he had a vision to create an

Claire Bown:

art gallery in the middle of the country that would be accessible to people.

Claire Bown:

So one of his strap lines was open doors, open minds, and he discovered

Claire Bown:

Compton Verney when it was a ruin.

Claire Bown:

It had been a stately home for landed gentry and then it had been sold off.

Claire Bown:

So different people had lived here over time.

Claire Bown:

But it really was a ruin.

Claire Bown:

He bought it and then he invested millions and millions of pounds into

Claire Bown:

turning it into a contemporary art space.

Claire Bown:

So he built a new wing that is a real state of the art, contemporary

Claire Bown:

gallery space created a restaurant space, toilets, all the immunities that

Claire Bown:

you need to run a public venue now.

Claire Bown:

And he opened it in two stages and the full opening was, yeah,

Claire Bown:

it was 20 years ago last year, so 21 years ago, almost to the day.

Claire Bown:

And another brilliant thing that he did is that he acquired

Claire Bown:

collections to go into the gallery.

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So it isn't that, it's his things that were here.

Claire Bown:

And some people say to me, oh, did Peter Moores live here?

Claire Bown:

Or so?

Claire Bown:

No, he never lived here.

Claire Bown:

He always thought about it, he was making it a public space.

Claire Bown:

So the collections that we've got on show are things that he thought

Claire Bown:

people would be interested in.

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And all the collections were selected because they weren't collections that

Claire Bown:

were in other people's collections.

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So like the National Gallery or other main museums around the country.

Claire Bown:

So it's kinda like all the collections are very, very specific and quite niche.

Claire Bown:

So together we've got these six incredibly specific, exciting collections.

Claire Bown:

So from ancient Shang, Ty, Chinese bronzes to folk art, to pub signs and

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really, eclectic mix of collections.

Claire Bown:

And then, two different exhibition spaces with different changing

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temporary exhibitions and also, things in the grounds.

Claire Bown:

So increasingly, we've done more events and activities, so we have things like

Claire Bown:

something called 'Pot Fest' coming up in May, where there's loads of people selling

Claire Bown:

their incredible pottery all around the grounds, loads of activities for families.

Claire Bown:

One of our big growing audiences has been a family audience, so activities

Claire Bown:

in the school holidays, but also activities for very early years, young

Claire Bown:

people in the week, who perhaps wouldn't otherwise go to a cultural space.

Claire Bown:

But trying to give people access to culture from an early stage.

Claire Bown:

And an absolutely fascinating history to the place.

Claire Bown:

And it could say quite a unique place as well with the kind of unique

Claire Bown:

blend of collections that you've got, the history that you've got.

Claire Bown:

But I think that your work, your values carry on the work of Sir Peter Moores,

Claire Bown:

who set up and started Compton Verney.

Claire Bown:

So I think you're carrying on those values around openness, accessibility.

Claire Bown:

So could you talk a little bit about the values at Compton Verney?

Geraldine Collinge:

Yeah, so I suppose maybe I'd start even by saying like, my

Geraldine Collinge:

own values are about access to culture.

Geraldine Collinge:

I believe passionately that everybody should have access

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to culture and creativity.

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That is something that we can all enjoy.

Geraldine Collinge:

And that's shaped my career and the jobs that I've done.

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So I've worked in a variety of different organizations and

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I've done lots of different creative roles through my career.

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But generally they've been about, how we can open things up and enable access

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to different forms of creativity.

Geraldine Collinge:

So I've worked in spoken word for quite a long time, really thinking about

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how more people engage with poetry.

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More people have access to something that often people would

Geraldine Collinge:

say, oh, poetry's not for me.

Geraldine Collinge:

Then you have, being at the Royal Shakespeare Company as not

Geraldine Collinge:

particularly a Shakespeare expert, but someone who could enable people

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to find ways into Shakespeare and, so yeah, I famously created

Geraldine Collinge:

Montague's v Capulet's table football.

Geraldine Collinge:

I definitely want people to be able to engage with things and I think

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that's super important is part of the thing we should all have access to.

Geraldine Collinge:

So I

Geraldine Collinge:

approach Compton with that in mind.

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And thinking about what are the values of Compton Verney and our

Geraldine Collinge:

values as we currently articulate them are that we're collaborative,

Geraldine Collinge:

sustainable, bold, inclusive, and fun.

Geraldine Collinge:

And it's one of the very early projects that I did here and almost used it

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as a way to kind of get to know the organization, get to know the people

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here, was to start to think about what might our values be going forward.

Geraldine Collinge:

We had values, et cetera already, but, how could we think about A small number

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of values that were really memorable, that people could really get behind

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that meant something to everybody.

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And I also really believe that I want everybody to be able to understand

Geraldine Collinge:

the values and everybody to feel like they can see them in their work.

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And we are a complex organization.

Geraldine Collinge:

We've got people doing lots of different functions here.

Geraldine Collinge:

As you can imagine, you might be working in finance, you might be

Geraldine Collinge:

working in the restaurant, you might be working in the landscape.

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Not lots of people are doing lots of different kinds of jobs it was really

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important to have the conversations around values to get us to think about yeah how

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can everybody say, 'oh yeah, I can see how I do that in my day-to-day work'.

Geraldine Collinge:

So yeah we did it as quite a large project.

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In that, when you are new somewhere and you're full of enthusiasm and

Geraldine Collinge:

you really want to set up and to take people with you on that journey.

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Thought about it as well as alongside updating our mission,

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our vision, and our values.

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So yeah, really thought about those.

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I mainly worked internally with staff on them, so with staff and volunteers,

Geraldine Collinge:

and then with our board as well to think about what the values were.

Geraldine Collinge:

And then since then, I. Like I say, I've, we touched on them again last

Geraldine Collinge:

,year when we were developing our new strategy and I did a bit more work

Geraldine Collinge:

externally had sensing conversations.

Geraldine Collinge:

I dunno if you know someone called Otto Scharmer.

Geraldine Collinge:

And, as part of his theory, he talks a lot about having sensing conversations and

Geraldine Collinge:

enables you to almost feel a new future.

Geraldine Collinge:

And he thinks about data really broadly.

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So data through, yeah, what you observe.

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And his big strap line is about observing, 'observe, observe, observe',

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and using all the data that you gather.

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How we are relating to each other in this conversation is data.

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That is, informing my opinion about who you are, how we are engaging,

Geraldine Collinge:

so he's really helps you to think about, particularly as kind of

Geraldine Collinge:

visual organizations, what's, we need to take everything that we

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see as part of a communication.

Geraldine Collinge:

So yeah, using that theory was a really important tool as part

Geraldine Collinge:

of our strategy development.

Claire Bown:

Super interesting.

Claire Bown:

I will look it up as those words, observe, observe, observe write up

Claire Bown:

my street, and probably a lot of the listeners to this podcast as well.

Claire Bown:

We talked off air a little bit about values being more than just a piece

Claire Bown:

of paper that you stick to the wall.

Claire Bown:

So how do you ensure that these values actually guide the work at Compton Verney

Geraldine Collinge:

Yeah, I think because some of them are kind of so

Geraldine Collinge:

close to my heart, so we immediately started doing some things that

Geraldine Collinge:

were instilled by those values.

Geraldine Collinge:

And offline, you asked me a brilliant question about my values and about

Geraldine Collinge:

Compton Verney values, and that was like really helpful to reflect on

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in terms of like, what things are my values as well as Compton Bernie's

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values and where do those converge and where might they be slightly different?

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So it made me think about some of the things that I arrived thinking

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about, like, how is Compton Verney the birthright of local people?

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We've got a paywall, so that's quite complicated to

Geraldine Collinge:

articulate it as a birthright.

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But you know, we started thinking about creating community passes

Geraldine Collinge:

that give a 97% discount for some of the groups that we work with.

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So straight away you are enabling access to something that might

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have been perceived as a barrier.

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And one of the things that we did last year is that as part of the 20th birthday,

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we created a two pound pass for people on pension credit and income credit.

Geraldine Collinge:

And we sold 850 of those over the year.. Actually being able to say, yes, there

Geraldine Collinge:

are ways of making sure that we are giving people access to Compton Verne.

Geraldine Collinge:

That it isn't elitist and thinking about yeah, what, how we might present ourselves

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and what we need to do to channel that.

Geraldine Collinge:

So I suppose some of it is through doing and through making some of those changes.

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And other things are, really practical things like in our annual reviews.

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So I've just had my annual review with the chair.

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We all start those by thinking about really specific examples

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of how we've met our values.

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So what are the things that we actually did that were

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tangible demonstration of value.

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Being able to do that all the way through the organization's,

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I think is really important.

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I personally would use them as a guide or a challenge.

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If you're trying to make a decision or you're in a dilemma or a tricky

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position, then thinking, okay, how can our values help us with this?

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What do they tell us to do?

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And, particularly at the moment, things aren't easy in the world, are they?

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If you are making a decision where you might think, oh, this is gonna compromise

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our values... Are we prepared to do that?

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What does that mean?

Geraldine Collinge:

So being really conscious, I suppose, about our decision making.

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And I talked a bit about our strategy and that absolutely at the heart

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of our strategy going forward.

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So that enables us to live them because then we're saying, yeah,

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these are the changes we're gonna make, these are the new initiatives.

Geraldine Collinge:

And thinking about where those values might get to.

Geraldine Collinge:

Sustainability is a really important value for us, environmentally, financially,

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in all ways thinking about sustainability.

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But, I really want to move beyond sustainability to

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thinking about regeneration.

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A lot of our strategy is thinking about a regenerative future.

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So what do we need to do to get there and that all of our values will help

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us to get to a regenerative future.

Geraldine Collinge:

And of course, they're on the wall.

Geraldine Collinge:

I can see them next to me.

Geraldine Collinge:

You know those old fashioned ways that they're around us as well.

Claire Bown:

Yeah.

Claire Bown:

Always good to to think about your values in that way as well as, that kind of

Claire Bown:

compass that you can come back to mm-hmm.

Claire Bown:

Whenever you need to.

Claire Bown:

And particularly in, in times like we are in, at the present time as

Claire Bown:

well, more challenging situations come up, you know, how do we think about

Claire Bown:

any of those challenging situations?

Claire Bown:

Are they in line with our values or do we have to step outside

Claire Bown:

our values in order to cope with the things that are thrown us?

Geraldine Collinge:

Mm-hmm.

Geraldine Collinge:

I'm just, I actually, I was just gonna say, I remember when John Prescott

Geraldine Collinge:

died, people quoted him saying, 'changing times, enduring values'.

Geraldine Collinge:

I thought that was such a, yeah.

Geraldine Collinge:

A brilliant quote.

Geraldine Collinge:

So I've been thinking about that particularly in very

Geraldine Collinge:

changing times at the moment.

Claire Bown:

Absolutely.

Claire Bown:

Absolutely.

Claire Bown:

I'm really intrigued by one of your values.

Claire Bown:

Well, I think they're all super interesting.

Claire Bown:

I like the use of bold in there as well, but fun as a core value.

Claire Bown:

Mm-hmm.

Claire Bown:

So this is not something if you look at.

Claire Bown:

I dunno, the major museum and heritage sites around the world,

Claire Bown:

but you probably wouldn't see the word fun come up in value.

Claire Bown:

So this is one of your core values.

Claire Bown:

And I think also in a sector that takes itself quite seriously a lot of the time

Claire Bown:

and can feel intimidating to some, we have those barriers to entry that we're

Claire Bown:

often talking about on the podcast.

Claire Bown:

So how does fun play into your work and how does it change

Claire Bown:

the way people engage with your collections and your exhibitions?

Geraldine Collinge:

I want it to be a value for everybody.

Geraldine Collinge:

We spend a lot of our lives at work, and yes, it can be serious.

Geraldine Collinge:

There are big decisions to make, but I would hope that we can do

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that within a context that is fun and enjoyable and pleasurable.

Geraldine Collinge:

I'm not playing practical jokes all the time, or, but hopefully is a

Geraldine Collinge:

place where people enjoy spending time and want to spend time.

Geraldine Collinge:

And I think as a recruiter and an employer, it's also important to think

Geraldine Collinge:

about, how you are attracting people.

Geraldine Collinge:

Like I say, we spend a lot of our times in the workplace.

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We also work a lot with volunteers and our board members, our chair was at a staff

Geraldine Collinge:

and volunteers meeting the other day and, she explaining her role to people and have

Geraldine Collinge:

people to understand, how a board works.

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And she said, you know, ' I don't get paid.

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I do it for the love'.

Geraldine Collinge:

And I thought that was such a nice way of expressing it as well.

Geraldine Collinge:

And, our board, our chair, particularly our volunteers, are

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very generous with their time.

Geraldine Collinge:

And, I want to respect them, but also for them to get.

Geraldine Collinge:

Pleasure, fun from the experience as well as hopefully lots of other things.

Geraldine Collinge:

You know, it is not to undercut the challenge of the endeavor, but it

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is to say, yeah, let's make sure we get our balances right here.

Geraldine Collinge:

Let's think about how we do that.

Geraldine Collinge:

And it is an incredible place and it is a place where lots

Geraldine Collinge:

of people have a lot of fun.

Geraldine Collinge:

So in the ways that you might imagine, there've been school groups

Geraldine Collinge:

here today who've been, running around the site, playing outside.

Geraldine Collinge:

It's a beautiful day.

Geraldine Collinge:

They were all drawing portraits earlier, so watching that, sense of fun and

Geraldine Collinge:

engagement and joy but then also really thinking about, okay, well, what can we

Geraldine Collinge:

do that maybe takes that a bit further?

Geraldine Collinge:

Like you say, how might people engage with the collections and the exhibitions?

Geraldine Collinge:

One of the collection re-displays that for me really embodies that

Geraldine Collinge:

value is our Naples collection.

Geraldine Collinge:

So our Naples collection, I should say, is a collection of, predominantly

Geraldine Collinge:

oil paintings, but not just oil paintings from the Naples region.

Geraldine Collinge:

Naples was one of Peter Moore's absolute passions.

Geraldine Collinge:

Somewhere he spent a lot of time.

Geraldine Collinge:

A lot of the paintings are of people on the grand tour or the kinds of things

Geraldine Collinge:

that they would've seen on the grand tour.

Geraldine Collinge:

We've got great big paintings of volcanoes, we've got paintings of

Geraldine Collinge:

villas with people playing music, quite a lot of religious paintings.

Geraldine Collinge:

And a few years ago we took the time to re-display that collection.

Geraldine Collinge:

We painted the rooms a very vibrant blue color.

Geraldine Collinge:

We hung the paintings at a lower level and the interpretation

Geraldine Collinge:

at a lower level as well.

Geraldine Collinge:

Straight away you are engaging with those artworks on a much more individual basis.

Geraldine Collinge:

And yeah, particularly if you are a smaller person or perhaps

Geraldine Collinge:

you're a wheelchair user, you're not looking up at the paintings.

Geraldine Collinge:

And also then sort through the five senses about those paintings.

Geraldine Collinge:

And specifically incorporating smell, sound, touch into the gallery.

Geraldine Collinge:

And there's an amazing volcano inspired play table as well that sits

Geraldine Collinge:

at the heart of one of the galleries.

Geraldine Collinge:

Visitor numbers have doubled since we did that re-display, doubled to that

Geraldine Collinge:

collection, and I know when I bring visitors anyone, to be honest, to the

Geraldine Collinge:

galleries, it's generally where I start.

Geraldine Collinge:

It's really brought those paintings to life, brought that collection to life.

Geraldine Collinge:

You can play, there's a painting of someone holding a guitar and

Geraldine Collinge:

you can play and with a piano and you can play the tarantella and

Geraldine Collinge:

it plays out loud in the space.

Geraldine Collinge:

So straight away disrupts, so it is not shush, we're here to look at

Geraldine Collinge:

these beautiful, important paintings.

Geraldine Collinge:

Yes.

Geraldine Collinge:

But also, you suddenly see them differently.

Geraldine Collinge:

So in another painting, you suddenly notice the musicians sitting along the

Geraldine Collinge:

wall by the castle, or you, if you think about touch when there's a painting of

Geraldine Collinge:

Jesus and the Virgin Mary, and someone's reaching towards his wound and suddenly

Geraldine Collinge:

you see the poignancy of that touch.

Geraldine Collinge:

And another thing we were able to do as part of that re-display is

Geraldine Collinge:

we commissioned some new work and there's a piece by, and we work with

Geraldine Collinge:

unlimited, who are an organization that specifically works with disabled artists.

Geraldine Collinge:

And we work with someone called Aaron McPeake, who's a blind artist

Geraldine Collinge:

and he does quite a lot of work with Bells and thinking about sound.

Geraldine Collinge:

And he produced these three bells that are surrounded with volcanic rock

Geraldine Collinge:

and visitors are encouraged to touch them, and they clang together and

Geraldine Collinge:

they make this beautiful bell sound.

Geraldine Collinge:

That's one of the first things you see when you go into the gallery spaces.

Geraldine Collinge:

I know when the gallery's waking up in the morning, you hear the clang

Geraldine Collinge:

of the bells, so you know, yeah.

Geraldine Collinge:

You know that people are in there.

Geraldine Collinge:

And thinking about smell.

Geraldine Collinge:

So there's beautiful little scents dispensers next to some of the paintings.

Geraldine Collinge:

If you are unlucky, you get a whiff of sulfur next to the so volcano

Geraldine Collinge:

paintings, or you might get beautiful lemons and oranges and think about

Geraldine Collinge:

difference of Italian smells, but yeah, it's really revolutionized the space.

Geraldine Collinge:

Young people go in pulling their parent grandparent, carer's hand,

Geraldine Collinge:

they're leading the journey, they want to go in and explore.

Geraldine Collinge:

So art isn't, it isn't feeling intimidating, they're wanting

Geraldine Collinge:

to engage underneath it.

Geraldine Collinge:

Reminded me, we've got a Louise Bourgeois spider here at the moment and I was going

Geraldine Collinge:

for a walk at lunchtime the other day.

Geraldine Collinge:

And there was a young girl, I guess three, four-ish walking up the drive with

Geraldine Collinge:

a, an older person and then she said, I'm just going to run under the spider.

Geraldine Collinge:

And, just that like setting off and it's like, wow, you know, it's Louise Bourgeois

Geraldine Collinge:

Spider and she's off to run underneath it.

Geraldine Collinge:

We want people, young people to experience the art, to engage with it,

Geraldine Collinge:

to feel like they can be artists, so to try and get rid of some of those

Geraldine Collinge:

intimidating, serious barriers whilst, at the same time still asking serious

Geraldine Collinge:

questions, still interrogating, it is not, we're not a bouncy castle, you

Geraldine Collinge:

know, we are still asking questions.

Geraldine Collinge:

We are still wanting to engage people and I think getting that getting that balance

Geraldine Collinge:

right so that we've got that mix of energy challenge, joy, we're finding a way of

Geraldine Collinge:

keeping those things in a healthy tension.

Geraldine Collinge:

But yeah, it's really brilliant to see how it's changing, how

Geraldine Collinge:

people can engage with art.

Claire Bown:

I love it.

Claire Bown:

And it seems to me leading on from that there's play at the center here.

Claire Bown:

There's a really playful approach.

Claire Bown:

So can you tell us more about this kind of philosophy around play as

Claire Bown:

a way to engage people with art?

Geraldine Collinge:

Yeah, so the team have developed a play strategy

Geraldine Collinge:

and take a play first approach.

Geraldine Collinge:

We've got a playground with all the traditional things you'd expect in

Geraldine Collinge:

a playground next to the car park.

Geraldine Collinge:

And of course, playgrounds are put next to car park.

Geraldine Collinge:

So you know, they don't disturb the art and, leave the screaming

Geraldine Collinge:

children down there and, you know, drop 'em off and then, go away again.

Geraldine Collinge:

Whereas we've really thought about how do we take play across the whole site?

Geraldine Collinge:

How do we.

Geraldine Collinge:

How do we think about play for everybody?

Geraldine Collinge:

Not, I know I've spoken a fair bit about play for children, but we want

Geraldine Collinge:

everybody to engage in different ways with art and with creativity and

Geraldine Collinge:

in fact with the landscape as well.

Geraldine Collinge:

So to think playfully.

Geraldine Collinge:

So yeah, so it's about inside and outside.

Geraldine Collinge:

It's about young and old we've worked with a few artists to help us with that.

Geraldine Collinge:

So with Woodland Tribe, who I'm sure you and lots of your listeners know who

Geraldine Collinge:

do brilliant, play and creativity that is allowing people to do things that

Geraldine Collinge:

may be, other people might say, oh, don't do that, or You can't do that.

Geraldine Collinge:

Obviously everything is risk assessed and it is safe, but, really letting

Geraldine Collinge:

people experiment and try things out.

Geraldine Collinge:

Also quite a lot of work with there's an artist called Matt Shaw, and Sarah Hunt.

Geraldine Collinge:

So they do a lot of work that's just like building things, creating things.

Geraldine Collinge:

We've got an exhibition of drawings for the, from the Sir John Soane Museum at the

Geraldine Collinge:

moment, and at the end of the exhibition there's cardboard and we are encouraging

Geraldine Collinge:

people to make their own structures.

Geraldine Collinge:

The exhibition is showing some structures that are kind of amazing,

Geraldine Collinge:

you know, thinking about putting the Taj Mahal inside the pyramid at Giza.

Geraldine Collinge:

For example, or, St Paul's (Cathedral) inside another building or what

Geraldine Collinge:

happens if you merge this and this?

Geraldine Collinge:

But you know, through those we can get people to think about

Geraldine Collinge:

how they want to be playful.

Geraldine Collinge:

We've got a lot of kind of Lego type building things here at the moment, and

Geraldine Collinge:

it definitely is not just the children that are there for hours building things.

Geraldine Collinge:

You know, everybody is enjoying exploring their own creativity and thinking.

Geraldine Collinge:

Having the pleasure of making.

Geraldine Collinge:

And also another important element is lots of loose form play.

Geraldine Collinge:

Lots of open-ended play, so it doesn't necessarily have a

Geraldine Collinge:

kind of really strict outcome.

Geraldine Collinge:

But we've got some wooden blocks that, are there for people to play on in

Geraldine Collinge:

the ground and people are encouraged to make whatever forms they want to

Geraldine Collinge:

make and to use their imaginations.

Geraldine Collinge:

And then the blue blocks sit in our Adam Hall, which is one of the few remaining

Geraldine Collinge:

Robert Adam features of the building.

Geraldine Collinge:

It's right at the heart of the building.

Geraldine Collinge:

Surrounded by the collection spaces and it will be full of young people playing

Geraldine Collinge:

with these big blue blocks, you know?

Geraldine Collinge:

And that makes me very happy.

Claire Bown:

So do you find that adults being slightly more reticent towards play

Claire Bown:

and being playful, we kind of learn not to be playful as we get older in life.

Claire Bown:

Do you find you have to work harder to get adults to engage as well?

Geraldine Collinge:

Yeah, we're not gonna make everybody be playful.

Geraldine Collinge:

And there are people who want to come and see the art and, have some

Geraldine Collinge:

food and do their day in the way that they want to do their day.

Geraldine Collinge:

I'm not going to insist that everybody must be playful.

Geraldine Collinge:

But for those that want to engage.

Geraldine Collinge:

It absolutely is there for them to do that.

Geraldine Collinge:

But also, some of the artwork is playful.

Geraldine Collinge:

I think two pieces particularly that are in the sculpture park that we've got.

Geraldine Collinge:

So we've got a Sarah Lucas piece called Perceval, which

Geraldine Collinge:

is a beautiful old shire horse.

Geraldine Collinge:

With a cart with two oversized marrows on the back of it.

Geraldine Collinge:

It's a huge piece that sits at the edge of our south lawn.

Geraldine Collinge:

In a moment it'll be totally surrounded by wild flowers, which is really beautiful,

Geraldine Collinge:

and it's a really playful piece.

Geraldine Collinge:

You would not expect to see an oversized, shire horse sitting in a landscape.

Geraldine Collinge:

And near to that, we've also, got a sculpture by an artist

Geraldine Collinge:

called Nicolas Deshayes.

Geraldine Collinge:

And his sculpture is in a fountain.

Geraldine Collinge:

And the fountain is lots of intestines.

Geraldine Collinge:

And so you see the water kind of spurting from these kind of innards in the fountain

Geraldine Collinge:

piece and people are sitting having their lunches, tea, coffee, whatever, looking

Geraldine Collinge:

at this incredible exploding fountain.

Geraldine Collinge:

And Perceval it references the fact that it used to be farmland.

Geraldine Collinge:

It would've been farmed with Yeah.

Geraldine Collinge:

Animals like Perceval and also, in our folk art collection, we've got

Geraldine Collinge:

lots of those little figures that would've sat on people's mantle pieces.

Geraldine Collinge:

You know, you can imagine them, the kind of small versions of the shire

Geraldine Collinge:

horse that would've been there.

Geraldine Collinge:

So I suppose thinking about yeah, artwork that's playful and that,

Geraldine Collinge:

yeah, might get you to engage with art in different ways as well.

Claire Bown:

And all of this is working towards your values of making art more

Claire Bown:

accessible to people who might otherwise feel intimidated by such a space.

Claire Bown:

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Geraldine Collinge:

And you know, we are in a beautiful historic landscape.

Geraldine Collinge:

We are in a very manufactured, shaped landscape.

Geraldine Collinge:

It's absolutely beautiful.

Geraldine Collinge:

We're in this beautiful old stately home, but you know, some

Geraldine Collinge:

people will be put off by that.

Geraldine Collinge:

Some people will think, yeah, this is a place that isn't for people like me.

Geraldine Collinge:

And we absolutely want it to be for everybody.

Geraldine Collinge:

So there was some feedback after an event recently and somebody

Geraldine Collinge:

written on the feedback form.

Geraldine Collinge:

I came to come to Compton Verney and realized that it was a place for people

Geraldine Collinge:

like me and that felt really special.

Geraldine Collinge:

That's a win.

Geraldine Collinge:

So yeah, definitely was really, really proud of those moments.

Claire Bown:

And you referred to the outside space there, which we

Claire Bown:

haven't yet really talked about.

Claire Bown:

Being surrounded with all this nature, this landscape around you, even your

Claire Bown:

mission talks about connecting people with art and nature and creativity.

Claire Bown:

So how does the setting.

Claire Bown:

Unique setting, I guess, influence your approach?

Geraldine Collinge:

Yeah.

Geraldine Collinge:

I think in the early days we were more about the building and about the things

Geraldine Collinge:

being inside the building and probably over the last kind of eight years, Compton

Geraldine Collinge:

Verney's built more things outside.

Geraldine Collinge:

There was a big restoration project of the ground starting to

Geraldine Collinge:

interpret the grounds more and now it feels really, really integral.

Geraldine Collinge:

For me it's one experience.

Geraldine Collinge:

So I want people to experience the whole thing, not just either come to

Geraldine Collinge:

the grounds or go to the gallery, I really want people to have a great

Geraldine Collinge:

experience of art, nature and creativity across both inside and outside.

Geraldine Collinge:

A lot of our visitors talk about Compton Verney, being a place

Geraldine Collinge:

that really makes you feel better.

Geraldine Collinge:

And that sense of it as being a restorative place.

Geraldine Collinge:

Once you are into Compton Verney itself, you walk through some lovely

Geraldine Collinge:

woods and you get to a bridge.

Geraldine Collinge:

And people often talk about that sense of going over the bridge and being

Geraldine Collinge:

like, oh, you're taking a deep breath.

Geraldine Collinge:

You go over the bridge and you are into this kind of wonderland.

Geraldine Collinge:

So I think it's part of the whole experience.

Geraldine Collinge:

It is part of what visitors describe about being really special about here.

Geraldine Collinge:

And yeah, it's absolutely at the core of what we do.

Geraldine Collinge:

It also makes you think about all the different ways that

Geraldine Collinge:

you can be regenerative.

Geraldine Collinge:

So whether you are experiencing nature or whether you are experiencing

Geraldine Collinge:

art inside, the different ways that you can have that experience.

Geraldine Collinge:

And lots of school teachers and parents talk about that kind of the

Geraldine Collinge:

magic that's around each corner.

Geraldine Collinge:

So the things that you can discover, the wonder of it, and that's

Geraldine Collinge:

definitely feels super important.

Geraldine Collinge:

So being in relation to landscape absolutely shapes who we are.

Geraldine Collinge:

We've worked with artists who work specifically thinking about landscape.

Geraldine Collinge:

So we did a brilliant installation in a coppice called Living Symphonies

Geraldine Collinge:

and, each species was programmed with a different sound, so you sat in

Geraldine Collinge:

the coppice and you experienced the different sounds, depending on whether

Geraldine Collinge:

it was a cloudy day or if it started raining, you started getting different

Geraldine Collinge:

sounds around you and it was such a beautiful, beautiful experience.

Geraldine Collinge:

And that when you went each time it was different.

Geraldine Collinge:

So in some ways it was a bit like itself that, each time you go, you

Geraldine Collinge:

could just give us something new.

Geraldine Collinge:

And that was, yeah, it was a really beautiful thing to experience in

Geraldine Collinge:

the landscape that was about the landscape, but enhance the landscape.

Geraldine Collinge:

And I mean for me it was a complete treat, to go each lunchtime and

Geraldine Collinge:

to spend some time, sitting in this incredible installation.

Geraldine Collinge:

And we, so we launched a sculpture park last March for our 20th anniversary.

Geraldine Collinge:

So having had sculpture through the grounds and sculpture that I suppose

Geraldine Collinge:

challenges us to think about what's in the landscape, who's the landscape's for.

Geraldine Collinge:

Obviously, when Capability Brown was working on it, he was thinking about

Geraldine Collinge:

particular kind of people and we might be thinking about a broader public now.

Geraldine Collinge:

Really trying to challenge who's the landscape for, it talks about a very

Geraldine Collinge:

kind of quintessential englishness with the beautiful lake and the bridge

Geraldine Collinge:

and we'll have sheep and lambs in a minute, all being, very perfectly

Geraldine Collinge:

beautiful in the bucolic landscape.

Geraldine Collinge:

But I'm really keen that we ask ourselves questions about, yeah, there wouldn't

Geraldine Collinge:

have been any sculpture by women in the landscape, years ago, Capability Brown,

Geraldine Collinge:

Robert Adam wouldn't have imagined that.

Geraldine Collinge:

And, we've got Helen Chadwick's 'Piss Flowers', we've got Louise Bourgeois

Geraldine Collinge:

Spider, sitting right next to the house.

Geraldine Collinge:

So yeah, it's super important and, but it is interesting, but I don't necessarily

Geraldine Collinge:

think of it in a separate box, like I really want to think of it as one thing

Geraldine Collinge:

together, and one whole experience.

Geraldine Collinge:

And, the landscape enables us to do things that other people can't do.

Geraldine Collinge:

We're super lucky to have it.

Geraldine Collinge:

So we work with this company called Digbeth Dining from Birmingham, which

Geraldine Collinge:

is not too far from here, so 45 minutes up the road and that is a dining

Geraldine Collinge:

experience, so loads of different popup vans with different kind of food.

Geraldine Collinge:

They had DJs and the first time we did that, there was 2000 people arrived

Geraldine Collinge:

on site and just had a gorgeous time hanging out on the grounds.

Geraldine Collinge:

And, we do wild swimming.

Geraldine Collinge:

We'll do, birdwatching?

Geraldine Collinge:

You know, really thinking about other things that we

Geraldine Collinge:

can, that the grounds enables.

Claire Bown:

And tell me about breathing with the forest as well.

Claire Bown:

'cause that bridges the indoor outdoor experience as well, doesn't it?

Claire Bown:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Geraldine Collinge:

Yeah, breathing with the forest is a piece by

Geraldine Collinge:

Marshmallow Laser Feast, who are an incredible digital first company.

Geraldine Collinge:

And I first experienced their work at the Royal Shakespeare Company.

Geraldine Collinge:

They were talking to us about sharing some of their practice,

Geraldine Collinge:

just exchanging how they worked.

Geraldine Collinge:

And I remember it so clearly, I was queuing in the green room for some food

Geraldine Collinge:

and they shared this headset experiences, VR experience that they'd made.

Geraldine Collinge:

And suddenly I was in a forest.

Geraldine Collinge:

You know, I wasn't standing by the sausages in the queue.

Geraldine Collinge:

Sort of like, wow.

Geraldine Collinge:

And a lot of their work has been forest-based.

Geraldine Collinge:

They've done a lot of work thinking about trees, forest, natural world.

Geraldine Collinge:

And breathing with the landscape was set in a Colombian rainforest.

Geraldine Collinge:

So there was a digital experience that we had in the Adam Hall and the

Geraldine Collinge:

space that I've just talked about.

Geraldine Collinge:

And it was the first time in a long time that we've had an

Geraldine Collinge:

artistic experience for everybody.

Geraldine Collinge:

So it just being an artistic experience in that space.

Geraldine Collinge:

And what was really lovely is that they embedded it into our place, so that you

Geraldine Collinge:

arrived at the welcome center and you were encouraged to walk through the ground.

Geraldine Collinge:

We've got this beautiful avenue of Wellingtonia trees, so to

Geraldine Collinge:

walk through those Wellingtonia trees to spend some time.

Geraldine Collinge:

Breathing our, breathing our forest, breathing with arteries.

Geraldine Collinge:

Thinking about what the world might be like in the future, what these trees

Geraldine Collinge:

might be like in the future, their ancient, very special ancient trees.

Geraldine Collinge:

And then to, so to spend that time in our landscape and to walk into

Geraldine Collinge:

the space and you went through the you walked through the galleries.

Geraldine Collinge:

And then went in through our Northern European Gallery into the Adam Hall

Geraldine Collinge:

and yeah, there was huge, great big screens with incredible scans of

Geraldine Collinge:

the trees in the rainforest and you could see the bubbles of the water

Geraldine Collinge:

and the sap and, the insects that surrounded them and the sound of that.

Geraldine Collinge:

So it was a really beautiful meditative experience.

Geraldine Collinge:

And some people spent, an hour or more in there, really enjoying it.

Geraldine Collinge:

And again, for everybody, I think people found particularly young

Geraldine Collinge:

people with maybe additional needs, really suddenly totally calmed in the

Geraldine Collinge:

space and really appreciated that.

Geraldine Collinge:

And, I'd had a stressful board meeting, to be honest.

Geraldine Collinge:

I appreciated spending some time with that.

Geraldine Collinge:

So yeah, it was a real treat and a really brilliant work that

Geraldine Collinge:

yeah, that crossed the threshold between the inside and the outside.

Geraldine Collinge:

And yeah we're sad to see it go, but space is now full of other activities, so yeah.

Claire Bown:

Absolutely.

Claire Bown:

Sounds so magical as well.

Claire Bown:

Totally immersive.

Claire Bown:

Tell me what's next for Compton Verney?

Claire Bown:

Any exciting initiatives, exhibitions that are coming up.

Geraldine Collinge:

Yeah.

Geraldine Collinge:

We've got a new sculpture arriving, which I can't talk about yet.

Geraldine Collinge:

This is very exciting.

Geraldine Collinge:

So that will come in summer.

Geraldine Collinge:

We've got a small turnaround, so if people want to see spider, they need to come

Geraldine Collinge:

before the end of July and that leaves and then something else will come in.

Geraldine Collinge:

So yeah, I'm super excited about that.

Geraldine Collinge:

We've got an exhibition by Emma Talbot, who's a Italian based artist

Geraldine Collinge:

and she does a lot of work on silks.

Geraldine Collinge:

And about Greek myths.

Geraldine Collinge:

Really beautiful work.

Geraldine Collinge:

And it's her first UK big UK show, so it'd be great to see that here.

Geraldine Collinge:

And yeah we're heading into summer, loads of brilliant events over

Geraldine Collinge:

summer, we had some of the hits from last year are coming back.

Geraldine Collinge:

We had lots of fun with inflatables and with bubbles last year, so

Geraldine Collinge:

there's more of that to come.

Geraldine Collinge:

So yeah, a really brilliant range of great activity.

Geraldine Collinge:

And our housemartins will be back on the front of the house

Geraldine Collinge:

and that is always a treat.

Geraldine Collinge:

That's one thing I. I love about comp money is watching the changing seasons.

Geraldine Collinge:

And last week, on Monday I don't know, somewhere between Monday and Tuesday,

Geraldine Collinge:

the cowslips all came out and now the grounds are covered in cowslips.

Geraldine Collinge:

And then the migrating birds will come.

Geraldine Collinge:

It's just, yeah.

Geraldine Collinge:

It's really extraordinary to get, to see that kind of changing landscape, like

Geraldine Collinge:

I say, is a treat for me and the other people who are here really regularly.

Geraldine Collinge:

So we are lucky that we've got some great members who come a lot and also enjoy

Geraldine Collinge:

seeing those kind of changing seasons.

Claire Bown:

Yeah.

Claire Bown:

Wonderful.

Claire Bown:

And you talked about members who come a lot, visitors.

Claire Bown:

We've talked about your values, we've talked about play and connecting

Claire Bown:

art and nature, making it accessible and open to lots of people.

Claire Bown:

So what do you hope that visitors take away from their

Claire Bown:

experience at Compton Verney?

Geraldine Collinge:

We talk about people having a day full of joy.

Geraldine Collinge:

That's one of the things that we really want people to have is a day full of joy.

Geraldine Collinge:

And also that thing I talked about a bit earlier on, about

Geraldine Collinge:

kind of energy, joy, and surprise.

Geraldine Collinge:

But yeah, those, all those gorgeous emotions.

Geraldine Collinge:

So yeah.

Geraldine Collinge:

Want people to have a brilliant time.

Claire Bown:

That's brilliant.

Claire Bown:

That's a wonderful note to end our conversation on as well.

Claire Bown:

How can people find out more about you and get in touch?

Geraldine Collinge:

So we're on all the major social media channels,

Geraldine Collinge:

Facebook, Instagram, TikTok.

Geraldine Collinge:

comptonverney.org.uk.

Geraldine Collinge:

is our website or if you are local, please come and visit us.

Geraldine Collinge:

We are open Wednesday to Sundays, 10 till five, sometimes later

Geraldine Collinge:

if we've got a special event on.

Geraldine Collinge:

But yeah, come and have a look, see what you think.

Claire Bown:

Lovely.

Claire Bown:

I will, next time I'm in the area.

Claire Bown:

Thank you Geraldine, so much for being on The Art Engager

Geraldine Collinge:

Not at all.

Geraldine Collinge:

Thank you Claire.

Geraldine Collinge:

Really nice to meet you.

Claire Bown:

So a huge thank you to Geraldine for sharing

Claire Bown:

her insights with us today.

Claire Bown:

You can find out more about Compton Verney on their website

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or follow them on social media.

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If you've enjoyed this episode or if any of our previous episodes have

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helped you in your work, please consider supporting the Art Engager on Patreon.

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Your monthly subscription helps keep this content coming, and I'm really

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grateful to all of our supporters.

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Don't forget to visit my website to learn more about the Art Engager book

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available now, wherever books are sold.

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That's all for today.

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Thank you so much for joining us, and I'll see you next time.

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Thank you for listening to the Art Engager podcast with me, Claire Bown.

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You can find more art engagement resources by visiting my website,

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thinking museum.com, and you can also find me on Instagram

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@thinkingmuseum, where I regularly share tips and tools on how to bring

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art to life and engage your audience.

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If you've enjoyed this episode, please share with others and subscribe to the

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show on your podcast player of choice.

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Thank you so much for listening, and I'll see you next

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time.

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The Art Engager
Master the art of meaningful engagement in museums and cultural spaces

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Claire Bown