She Shapes History: Building Community Through Women's History Tours with Sita Sargeant

Claire Bown: 00:00:08

Hello and welcome to the Art Engager podcast with me, Claire Bown.

Claire Bown: 00:00:15

I'm here to share techniques and tools to help you engage with your audience

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and bring art objects and ideas to life.

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So let's dive into this week's show.

Claire Bown: 00:00:31

Hello and welcome to a new episode of the Art Engager.

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Today I'm chatting with Sita Sargeant, founder and self-described Chief

Claire Bown: 00:00:40

Troublemaker at She Shapes History, an Australian tourism company and social

Claire Bown: 00:00:46

enterprise that's revolutionizing how we experience women's history

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through engaging walking tours.

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Before our chat, if you are enjoying my book, The Art Engager:

Claire Bown: 00:00:58

Reimagining Guided Experiences in Museums, I'd love your support.

Claire Bown: 00:01:03

Please consider leaving a review on Amazon or sharing a photo

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of your copy on social media.

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And don't forget to tag me in.

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I love to see the art engager out and about in the world.

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Now let me introduce today's guest.

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Sita Sargeant founded, She Shapes History after she returned to Canberra.

Claire Bown: 00:01:25

During the pandemic there, she discovered so many stories of the

Claire Bown: 00:01:30

women who had shaped Australian history stories that had been largely

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overlooked in mainstream narratives.

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This inspired the start of She Shapes History, which began as weekly walking

Claire Bown: 00:01:42

tours in Canberra, and has grown into a thriving social enterprise

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with plans to expand nationwide.

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Her passion for making history accessible and engaging has led to a new book,

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allowing her to share 250 stories of women who have shaped Australian history.

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In today's episode, Sita shares her people-centered approach to

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creating walking tours, her unique guide, hiring and training process,

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and how she builds community around a cause rather than just history.

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She offers valuable insights on designing experiences for specific

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audiences, creating consistent brand voice across all touch points.

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And using innovative techniques to continuously improve tour quality.

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Whether you are leading museum tools, designing, walking experiences, or

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simply interested in making history more engaging and accessible, Sita's practical

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wisdom and enthusiasm will inspire you.

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Enjoy.

Claire Bown: 00:02:50

Hi Sita and welcome to the Art Engager podcast.

Claire Bown: 00:02:54

Hi Claire.

Claire Bown: 00:02:55

It is an absolute delight to be here.

Claire Bown: 00:02:57

Well, welcome we're delighted to have you.

Claire Bown: 00:03:00

So can you tell our listeners who you are and what you do?

Sita Sargeant: 00:03:06

So my name is Sita and I am the founder and I always say Chief

Sita Sargeant: 00:03:10

Troublemaker at She Shapes History.

Sita Sargeant: 00:03:13

We are an Australian based tourism company and social enterprise running

Sita Sargeant: 00:03:19

women's history walking tours, currently in Canberra, which is

Sita Sargeant: 00:03:23

Australia's capital city, but soon expanding to Sydney, Melbourne, and

Sita Sargeant: 00:03:28

hopefully everywhere else in Australia.

Claire Bown: 00:03:30

So can you tell us a little bit about yourself, how you started,

Claire Bown: 00:03:35

She Shapes History, how it came about and also how you came to create walking

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tours that focus on women's history?

Sita Sargeant: 00:03:42

So I am not someone who ever saw myself ending up in tourism,

Sita Sargeant: 00:03:46

although upon reflection, it makes absolutely perfect sense for someone

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with my personality and interest.

Sita Sargeant: 00:03:54

my life was put on a very different path because of the pandemic.

Sita Sargeant: 00:03:58

I did a degree focused on essentially South Asian women's

Sita Sargeant: 00:04:03

history, and then I moved overseas to India at the end of 2019.

Sita Sargeant: 00:04:09

Great time to be moving overseas to Asia.

Sita Sargeant: 00:04:12

And then the pandemic started to really kick off and I think I was

Sita Sargeant: 00:04:16

probably one of the last Australians to get back to Australia easily.

Sita Sargeant: 00:04:19

So I ended up back in Australia, back in Canberra, a city I hadn't lived in

Sita Sargeant: 00:04:24

years but was where my parents were so I had a free room available and I was

Sita Sargeant: 00:04:29

at my parents' place and I ended up getting a job at the Australian National

Sita Sargeant: 00:04:33

University as a research assistant in an Australian kind of policy space.

Sita Sargeant: 00:04:37

And I started engaging with Australian history for the first time in my life.

Sita Sargeant: 00:04:42

And I just had this moment where I went, oh my gosh, this is so much more

Sita Sargeant: 00:04:47

interesting than anyone ever told me.

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And then that moment was quickly followed up with, where are the women?

Sita Sargeant: 00:04:54

Why aren't I seeing many women being positioned as central

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characters in the story ' Australia?

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So I started digging and I did not have to dig very deep to find stories

Sita Sargeant: 00:05:05

of women, and I found so many stories and so many really diverse and

Sita Sargeant: 00:05:10

incredible stories that just transformed how I thought about this country.

Sita Sargeant: 00:05:15

And I spent a few months just complaining to a lot of people about it.

Sita Sargeant: 00:05:20

Going, like, 'can you believe that these women have been hidden?

Sita Sargeant: 00:05:24

Like, how is this okay?' And it got to the point where I was like,

Sita Sargeant: 00:05:28

I, like I need to do something.

Sita Sargeant: 00:05:29

I can't spend the next gener several years just complaining to people.

Sita Sargeant: 00:05:33

And I was a very extroverted problem solver who had been trapped

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in my parents' house for months.

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So I was like, I wanna do something that involves people.

Sita Sargeant: 00:05:42

I don't want another online thing.

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I want a real life experience.

Sita Sargeant: 00:05:46

So I started running a weekly walking tour, sharing the stories

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of some of the women who I had discovered who had shaped Canberra.

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And it ended up being really popular.

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And I think because it was popular and people came, I stuck with it and just

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ended up falling in love with walking tours as a medium for sharing information.

Sita Sargeant: 00:06:08

And it just grew and grew.

Sita Sargeant: 00:06:11

And the thing that made me go a bit all in on She Shapes History was

Sita Sargeant: 00:06:15

when a major Australian publishing house kind of came across it online.

Sita Sargeant: 00:06:20

They sent an email that I initially thought was a scam saying we love

Sita Sargeant: 00:06:26

what you're doing and we think that this would make a great national book.

Sita Sargeant: 00:06:29

So taking what you do in Canberra with these guided walking tours and making

Sita Sargeant: 00:06:32

tours for like, across Australia.

Sita Sargeant: 00:06:34

So, because I thought it was a scam, I didn't respond for months, and by the

Sita Sargeant: 00:06:37

time that I eventually realized it was not a scam I responded in a very manic way

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being like, I'm very interested in a book.

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And they got back to me within an hour and made an offer.

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And from then contracts.

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Were back and forth for a little bit, but after that I ended up quitting

Sita Sargeant: 00:06:52

my very well paid museum job and using my advance to buy a 10-year-old

Sita Sargeant: 00:06:58

Subaru Forester and a rooftop tent.

Sita Sargeant: 00:07:00

And I spent six months traveling around Australia doing research for this book,

Sita Sargeant: 00:07:04

doing a deep dive into, Australia's hidden women's history and it was that

Sita Sargeant: 00:07:09

made me go, okay, I want to go all in on really growing She Shapes History.

Sita Sargeant: 00:07:12

There's something here.

Sita Sargeant: 00:07:13

There's a real lack of great historical experiences in Australia.

Sita Sargeant: 00:07:16

This is a problem that I can solve.

Claire Bown: 00:07:19

So a huge amount that you've managed to fit into five years.

Claire Bown: 00:07:23

But something else you said struck me.

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You were talking about how you fell in love with the medium of tours.

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So why did you decide to offer a tour?

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Why not go straight to the book or another medium?

Claire Bown: 00:07:35

Why is a tour such a good medium for being able to talk about women's history?

Sita Sargeant: 00:07:40

I love walking tours because I think they are one of the

Sita Sargeant: 00:07:44

only mediums for sharing information that truly meets people where

Sita Sargeant: 00:07:48

they're at and is truly accessible.

Sita Sargeant: 00:07:51

And what I mean by that is that a really good guide should be running

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a different tour every single time.

Sita Sargeant: 00:07:57

You should be like seeing who is in your group, seeing where their, what

Sita Sargeant: 00:08:02

their interests are, seeing where their kind of level of education

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surrounding your topic is, and then actually adapting and tailoring your

Sita Sargeant: 00:08:12

tour, and your content to meet that.

Sita Sargeant: 00:08:14

And books don't do that.

Sita Sargeant: 00:08:16

Lectures don't do that.

Sita Sargeant: 00:08:18

But because you have a small group, we cap our tours at 16, you are able to

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genuinely meet people where they're at and make history relevant and memorable.

Sita Sargeant: 00:08:31

And I truly believe that if we are going to see change when it comes to

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the lack of respect and recognition for women's historical contributions,

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people need to remember what we say.

Sita Sargeant: 00:08:42

They need to remember some of these stories.

Sita Sargeant: 00:08:44

They need to remember how they felt and they need to internalize in their

Sita Sargeant: 00:08:48

soul, that women have shaped history and there's a reason why we haven't

Sita Sargeant: 00:08:52

shared their stories and it's because only a certain type of person has

Sita Sargeant: 00:08:56

been documenting and sharing it.

Sita Sargeant: 00:08:58

And I think that walking tours are so powerful and special

Sita Sargeant: 00:09:02

for just making content hyper relevant and therefore memorable.

Claire Bown: 00:09:08

Yeah, I completely agree.

Claire Bown: 00:09:09

The tour is a great model to be able to connect people, to build community, and

Claire Bown: 00:09:13

I think that's something that really comes across in your work as well.

Claire Bown: 00:09:16

It's so much more than a tour.

Claire Bown: 00:09:18

She Shapes History is very much a community of people.

Sita Sargeant: 00:09:22

Yeah, I like to think that we're building a bit of a

Sita Sargeant: 00:09:25

movement and that we are a, like, the way that I've been really thinking

Sita Sargeant: 00:09:30

about and communicating it to people lately is that I want She Shapes

Sita Sargeant: 00:09:33

History to be the gateway for people into Australian women's history.

Sita Sargeant: 00:09:39

There's not that much out there that is just basic 1 0 1, hyper

Sita Sargeant: 00:09:44

engaging, hyper accessible.

Sita Sargeant: 00:09:46

This is what Australian history is and this is what Australian women's

Sita Sargeant: 00:09:49

history is, particularly for adults.

Sita Sargeant: 00:09:52

And I see what we are doing as that gateway for that into bringing people

Sita Sargeant: 00:09:56

into the conversation and to bringing people into the community where they

Sita Sargeant: 00:10:00

then feel like they can engage further, they can read more and they can be

Sita Sargeant: 00:10:05

part of this movement to making sure that women are respected and recognized

Sita Sargeant: 00:10:09

historically, as well as today.

Sita Sargeant: 00:10:12

And so when we create our social media content.

Sita Sargeant: 00:10:16

When we write our newsletter, when we deliver our tours, our whole goal

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with that is to get people feeling like they're part of a community

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and leave them feeling like they've just spent time with a friend.

Sita Sargeant: 00:10:28

When someone communicates with us on social media or via email, like we

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treat them like we would a friend.

Sita Sargeant: 00:10:34

The exact same way that we do on our tours which I think is, maybe one of the

Sita Sargeant: 00:10:38

big benefits of being a smaller company, that you're able to do that and you're

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able to have such a consistent brand both on the tours as well as in your

Sita Sargeant: 00:10:46

marketing presence and that it comes through on both, and that we just really

Sita Sargeant: 00:10:51

center people on both and want them to stay with us for years and years.

Sita Sargeant: 00:10:57

Like we want people to come across us online, follow us for a while,

Sita Sargeant: 00:11:02

come on a tour, keep following us, and then, tell their friends

Sita Sargeant: 00:11:05

and maybe come on another tour.

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And

Sita Sargeant: 00:11:07

The goal is that, someone will come on one tour, they'll have such a great time,

Sita Sargeant: 00:11:11

and they'll be like, oh, Sita left me feeling like I was a good friend of hers.

Sita Sargeant: 00:11:15

And I've left also knowing so much more about Canberra that then they travel to

Sita Sargeant: 00:11:20

Sydney or they go back home to Sydney and they find out there's a tour there and

Sita Sargeant: 00:11:24

they're like, oh, I'll go on that tour as well because I had such a great time

Sita Sargeant: 00:11:28

on the other, She Shapes History tour and I feel like I'm part of this community

Claire Bown: 00:11:31

I think you mentioned you're expanding to new cities

Claire Bown: 00:11:34

this year, and I know that brings lots of challenges with it as well.

Claire Bown: 00:11:38

So, you having to hire new guides.

Claire Bown: 00:11:41

And one thing that stood out to me a few weeks ago on social media was the the

Claire Bown: 00:11:47

job spec that you posted was very unlike any job spec I've read for any tour guide

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position that I've seen in the past.

Claire Bown: 00:11:57

It really focused on this idea of community, of connections So

Claire Bown: 00:12:01

when you are hiring your guides.

Claire Bown: 00:12:04

They are the face of She Shapes History.

Claire Bown: 00:12:06

What qualities are you looking for?

Sita Sargeant: 00:12:09

Yeah, I am looking for people who love other people.

Sita Sargeant: 00:12:14

I say that the sort of person would make a great tour guide, and I think

Sita Sargeant: 00:12:18

not just a, She Shapes History.

Sita Sargeant: 00:12:19

A tour guide is the sort of person that if you're at a big party and you

Sita Sargeant: 00:12:23

see someone standing alone, you're the sort of person who goes up to

Sita Sargeant: 00:12:26

them and says, 'how are you going?

Sita Sargeant: 00:12:28

What's your day been like?, Hi, my name is...', I think that people

Sita Sargeant: 00:12:32

who are innately like that and feel that way, make great guides.

Sita Sargeant: 00:12:36

Because they're the sort of people who are kind, they're generous.

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They're welcoming.

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They're friendly.

Sita Sargeant: 00:12:41

They go out of their way to make sure that people have a good time.

Sita Sargeant: 00:12:45

and I think that if you have that locked down, you can learn content and

Sita Sargeant: 00:12:50

you will be so good when you do learn content because you will then be able

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to pick up on the messages people are giving you on what they're saying, and

Sita Sargeant: 00:12:59

you'll tailor your content a lot more naturally and easily because you've locked

Sita Sargeant: 00:13:05

down, you know that focus on people.

Claire Bown: 00:13:08

You've gotta like people in this kind of work, haven't you?

Claire Bown: 00:13:12

And so often that somehow gets lost.

Claire Bown: 00:13:14

And I have seen organizations in the past museums tour operators, hiring for

Claire Bown: 00:13:21

a specific qualification, a specific type of person, but not really spending

Claire Bown: 00:13:26

that much effort thinking about, does this person like to engage with others?

Claire Bown: 00:13:31

Do they get a buzz when they create conversation?

Claire Bown: 00:13:34

Do they enjoy connecting with people from all different parts of the world?

Claire Bown: 00:13:39

All of those things are so, so important.

Claire Bown: 00:13:41

So I love the way that you highlighted this in your job advert.

Claire Bown: 00:13:45

But then I guess once you've hired people, you have the whole

Claire Bown: 00:13:48

training process to go through.

Claire Bown: 00:13:50

So how do you train your team to embody the values that you have as a company,

Claire Bown: 00:13:56

but also to still bring their own personality and perspective to the tour?

Sita Sargeant: 00:14:02

This is something that we are constantly working on.

Sita Sargeant: 00:14:07

I think that you can always be doing guide training better, and something

Sita Sargeant: 00:14:13

that I'm aware of as well is that we are looking for people who can run

Sita Sargeant: 00:14:17

like usually an average of one tour a week, and it's a two hour tour, so

Sita Sargeant: 00:14:22

I cannot invest in them a one month training program as much as I would like.

Sita Sargeant: 00:14:28

Instead, we have to set them up for success in the documents that we end up

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giving them, the conversations that we have with them and how we teach them the

Sita Sargeant: 00:14:38

content and the things that we emphasize.

Sita Sargeant: 00:14:40

So I start with my hiring ad and we rarely hire people.

Sita Sargeant: 00:14:45

So I think this is the first time that we've done a hiring round since 2023.

Sita Sargeant: 00:14:49

And it's because I focus so, so heavily on retention.

Sita Sargeant: 00:14:53

I have started saying this in interviews, which I know is absolutely a bit

Sita Sargeant: 00:14:58

unhinged, but I've started saying to people, I want this to be like a

Sita Sargeant: 00:15:01

part of your life for the long term and you can run different tours.

Sita Sargeant: 00:15:05

We can do different things, but I want you in it with me for the long term and.

Sita Sargeant: 00:15:09

Some people are really into that, others I can see in their face,

Sita Sargeant: 00:15:12

they're like, who is this woman?

Sita Sargeant: 00:15:15

But I think that it speaks to how becoming a really great guide takes time as well.

Sita Sargeant: 00:15:20

And you wanna hold onto people and treat them great, that they feel

Sita Sargeant: 00:15:23

so proud of what they're doing, that they can see themselves

Sita Sargeant: 00:15:26

doing it for a long time to come.

Sita Sargeant: 00:15:28

So we rarely do hiring rounds, so when we do, we wanna really find the right people.

Sita Sargeant: 00:15:33

'cause it's a big investment for us as a small company.

Sita Sargeant: 00:15:37

And I do my hiring post where I focus a lot on emphasizing that this job is

Sita Sargeant: 00:15:43

about people, it's about connection, it's about building community and.

Sita Sargeant: 00:15:48

It's about like making things accessible and engaging and being a warm person.

Sita Sargeant: 00:15:53

And it was really interesting 'cause that was the first time that

Sita Sargeant: 00:15:57

I've done a hiring post like that.

Sita Sargeant: 00:15:59

Last time I did a, 'we are hiring' post it literally just said, we are hiring.

Sita Sargeant: 00:16:04

These are the logistical things we need, and we got over 50 applications.

Sita Sargeant: 00:16:08

That time in 2023, when I did that sort of post this time, I got 15 applications

Sita Sargeant: 00:16:14

and they were so much higher quality.

Sita Sargeant: 00:16:16

Like I almost interviewed everyone.

Sita Sargeant: 00:16:18

They were all highly qualified people.

Sita Sargeant: 00:16:21

All really interesting and different.

Sita Sargeant: 00:16:23

Like we had age ranges.

Sita Sargeant: 00:16:24

From, like early twenties to mid sixties and different kind of backgrounds.

Sita Sargeant: 00:16:29

Like just the quality of people because I was so much clearer about what

Sita Sargeant: 00:16:34

I wanted just really came through.

Sita Sargeant: 00:16:36

So then we've got those kind of 15 applications and I went through

Sita Sargeant: 00:16:40

each of them really carefully.

Sita Sargeant: 00:16:41

And the big things that I was looking for is people who went a little bit

Sita Sargeant: 00:16:46

above and beyond in their application.

Sita Sargeant: 00:16:48

So people who took the time to give good recommendations for.

Sita Sargeant: 00:16:53

Sydney and places to see in Sydney, people who gave more interesting recommendations

Sita Sargeant: 00:16:58

for books and TV shows that they like.

Sita Sargeant: 00:17:00

And people who were doing something that was a little bit

Sita Sargeant: 00:17:04

history shaping in their own life.

Sita Sargeant: 00:17:06

Like that's what I was looking for.

Sita Sargeant: 00:17:07

I. And so I did that, and then I shortlisted people and I have been going

Sita Sargeant: 00:17:13

through that process of interviewing.

Sita Sargeant: 00:17:14

And when I've been interviewing people, I have really emphasized in the interviews

Sita Sargeant: 00:17:20

that this is about people first, and some of the questions that I have been asking

Sita Sargeant: 00:17:25

include, can you share with me some of the strategies you use to make people feel

Sita Sargeant: 00:17:30

welcome and at home in an environment?

Sita Sargeant: 00:17:33

That is a really good question for figuring out whether or not

Sita Sargeant: 00:17:37

someone actually knows what it takes to make someone feel welcome.

Sita Sargeant: 00:17:42

One of the other questions that we ask is about how would you

Sita Sargeant: 00:17:46

respond to a guest challenging you?

Sita Sargeant: 00:17:48

And

Sita Sargeant: 00:17:49

I give two different examples for this.

Sita Sargeant: 00:17:50

The first one is, what would you do if someone gave you a really

Sita Sargeant: 00:17:55

factually wrong statement if they said, Australia was federated in 1750.

Sita Sargeant: 00:18:02

In reality, Australia federated in 1901, and they really pushed that.

Sita Sargeant: 00:18:06

They were like, I know, in my soul it's 1750.

Sita Sargeant: 00:18:09

And I've been asking people to say, how do you respond to that?

Sita Sargeant: 00:18:11

What do you do?

Sita Sargeant: 00:18:13

And that's a great question because you can see if someone's

Sita Sargeant: 00:18:17

response is to just, correct them.

Sita Sargeant: 00:18:19

And that's more important to say like.

Sita Sargeant: 00:18:23

'It was 1901, you are wrong'.

Sita Sargeant: 00:18:25

Or if their response is to like push back a bit and go like, it's 1901,

Sita Sargeant: 00:18:29

these are our sources, this is why.

Sita Sargeant: 00:18:31

I think that you might be confusing 1750 with, around when

Sita Sargeant: 00:18:36

Captain Cook came to Australia.

Sita Sargeant: 00:18:37

So giving them an out, if it's, just letting the conversation go and

Sita Sargeant: 00:18:41

going, like, dates don't matter as much in this context, like, let's

Sita Sargeant: 00:18:43

focus on the stories and things.

Sita Sargeant: 00:18:45

So it's good for just seeing how people would respond to that and what their

Sita Sargeant: 00:18:49

number one value is, and whether it's like factual accuracy or making sure that the

Sita Sargeant: 00:18:55

guest doesn't leave feeling embarrassed and excluded for saying something wrong.

Sita Sargeant: 00:19:00

So that's a really good check of that.

Sita Sargeant: 00:19:02

And then the other example related to that, that I ask people is, what

Sita Sargeant: 00:19:07

would you do if someone said something really political on that tour?

Sita Sargeant: 00:19:11

If they said a really inflammatory political statement that was about

Sita Sargeant: 00:19:15

a political party or said, if people who vote this way are terrible

Sita Sargeant: 00:19:19

people who belong in jail, like how would you respond to that?

Sita Sargeant: 00:19:23

And again, you can get a good feel for whether or not they'd respond

Sita Sargeant: 00:19:26

essentially with empathy and in a way that doesn't make that person feel bad,

Sita Sargeant: 00:19:31

but also doesn't exclude everyone else.

Sita Sargeant: 00:19:34

And I think that it actually takes a pretty empathetic and highly skilled

Sita Sargeant: 00:19:39

person to be able to not leave someone feeling bad for challenging them a

Sita Sargeant: 00:19:44

bit or, for shutting something down and going, you know what, we're gonna

Sita Sargeant: 00:19:47

focus on women's history for this tour.

Sita Sargeant: 00:19:49

Or like just bringing it back to our core issue that we're gonna

Sita Sargeant: 00:19:52

be talking about on this tour.

Sita Sargeant: 00:19:53

Like, ' that's an interesting point, but our theme today is..',

Sita Sargeant: 00:19:57

so the questions that I've been asking have not been about content.

Sita Sargeant: 00:20:01

They have really been about how would someone respond to a situation

Sita Sargeant: 00:20:06

or, create a situation that would make the tour feel how I want it to

Sita Sargeant: 00:20:10

feel, which is warm and welcoming.

Sita Sargeant: 00:20:12

And I've been in a few interviews.

Sita Sargeant: 00:20:14

I've never been asked questions like this.

Sita Sargeant: 00:20:16

And so that's that's their interview process.

Sita Sargeant: 00:20:19

And of course I get them to, share a story.

Sita Sargeant: 00:20:21

But my goal with the interviews is not, seeing how much someone knows

Sita Sargeant: 00:20:24

'cause that really can be taught.

Sita Sargeant: 00:20:25

It's just seeing that can they create a welcoming environment?

Sita Sargeant: 00:20:29

Are they an engaging storyteller?

Sita Sargeant: 00:20:31

And those are the two key things,

Claire Bown: 00:20:33

and they're so, so important.

Claire Bown: 00:20:34

So those questions are super interesting.

Claire Bown: 00:20:37

The first one about creating that warm environment, like, how do you

Claire Bown: 00:20:40

create connections with people?

Claire Bown: 00:20:42

It's something you need to intentionally do on a tour.

Claire Bown: 00:20:46

It's not something that just happens.

Claire Bown: 00:20:47

So by asking that question, you are, basically seeing whether someone's been

Claire Bown: 00:20:52

thinking about that or whether they might just expect it to naturally happen.

Claire Bown: 00:20:57

It's definitely a conscious, intentional thing.

Claire Bown: 00:20:59

And the last two questions as well, I think are super interesting.

Claire Bown: 00:21:02

Not easy to answer, not easy to answer for someone who's experienced as well because

Claire Bown: 00:21:07

even with a lot of experience, when you're challenged, things happen in your body.

Claire Bown: 00:21:11

Emotions come up, especially if the person who's challenging has

Claire Bown: 00:21:15

triggered something in you as well.

Claire Bown: 00:21:17

So having that self-awareness to be able to think, okay, how do I respond to this?

Claire Bown: 00:21:22

How can I take a moment?

Claire Bown: 00:21:24

How can I respond in a way that doesn't put that person down?

Claire Bown: 00:21:28

Keeps a sense of community within the group.

Claire Bown: 00:21:30

Takes a lot of skill as well.

Claire Bown: 00:21:32

And I think also when we are challenged, we really have to

Claire Bown: 00:21:36

rely on our values as well.

Claire Bown: 00:21:38

So what are our values that we are bringing to this tour

Claire Bown: 00:21:42

is super important as well.

Claire Bown: 00:21:43

So I guess you're finding out so much more from your applicants by asking

Claire Bown: 00:21:48

these really incisive questions as well.

Sita Sargeant: 00:21:51

And it's made just such a huge difference in the hiring

Sita Sargeant: 00:21:53

process because there have been some people who have looked amazing

Sita Sargeant: 00:21:57

on paper and then they've really struggled with those questions.

Sita Sargeant: 00:22:00

Yeah.

Sita Sargeant: 00:22:01

Versus people who were maybe on my, my, my fence in terms of whether

Sita Sargeant: 00:22:06

I even gave them an interview and they've just done an amazing job with

Sita Sargeant: 00:22:09

the questions and they've gone from, being on the fence to an instant.

Sita Sargeant: 00:22:13

Like, yes, I would offer this per this person a job right now.

Sita Sargeant: 00:22:16

And I think that you're spot on about us knowing what our values are and

Sita Sargeant: 00:22:21

the person that you're interviewing, before you've even offered them a

Sita Sargeant: 00:22:23

job inherently knowing a little bit like what those values are.

Sita Sargeant: 00:22:27

And for us, like our number one value is always accessibility.

Sita Sargeant: 00:22:31

Like we want this tour to feel accessible to anyone.

Sita Sargeant: 00:22:36

Like I never want someone to come on our tour and to leave feeling.

Sita Sargeant: 00:22:41

This wasn't for me.

Sita Sargeant: 00:22:42

Like that would genuinely break my heart if that happened.

Sita Sargeant: 00:22:45

And I think that at its core, that's what accessibility is.

Sita Sargeant: 00:22:48

It's about, someone coming into an experience and leaving

Sita Sargeant: 00:22:52

feeling this was for me.

Sita Sargeant: 00:22:53

Like, I felt really seen, I felt really included.

Sita Sargeant: 00:22:56

I felt like this tour was made for me.

Sita Sargeant: 00:22:59

I think that because accessibility is the core thing that drives us

Sita Sargeant: 00:23:04

probably above all else we make a lot of decisions based on that, and that's

Sita Sargeant: 00:23:08

essentially what I'm looking for.

Sita Sargeant: 00:23:09

Whether or not someone can create an accessible space and to leave

Sita Sargeant: 00:23:13

people feeling like this was for me.

Sita Sargeant: 00:23:16

Like, I am glad that I came, like I felt seen.

Sita Sargeant: 00:23:19

And then it's, I think really like reiterating that through then the welcome

Sita Sargeant: 00:23:24

pack that we give guides, which clearly shares, our story as well as our values.

Sita Sargeant: 00:23:30

I really look for people who are passionate about the problem that

Sita Sargeant: 00:23:33

we're solving, and also instantly get why not recognizing women's

Sita Sargeant: 00:23:39

historical contributions is an issue and that they feel really

Sita Sargeant: 00:23:43

proud to be part of that solution.

Sita Sargeant: 00:23:45

And then it's reiterating what the problem we're solving is why we're

Sita Sargeant: 00:23:48

solving it, how we're solving it.

Sita Sargeant: 00:23:51

Those core values .Our tone of voice as well, and we have a tone of voice document

Sita Sargeant: 00:23:57

that is the same for both our tours as well as our online brand presence.

Sita Sargeant: 00:24:01

So it means that when someone, whether it's, a guide looking at the social media

Sita Sargeant: 00:24:05

or the website or a customer, they're feeling the same thing and they, and

Sita Sargeant: 00:24:10

the guides can get a really good feel for okay, this is who She Shapes History

Sita Sargeant: 00:24:14

is I think that it's making sure that comes across really, well and strong.

Sita Sargeant: 00:24:19

And it's interesting 'cause my before I went full-time on She Shapes History.

Sita Sargeant: 00:24:23

I was actually working at a museum in a digital producer role,

Sita Sargeant: 00:24:27

so not a front of house role.

Sita Sargeant: 00:24:28

I was behind the scenes creating digital content.

Sita Sargeant: 00:24:33

And one thing that really got me and that.

Sita Sargeant: 00:24:37

I think quite frustrated me a lot was just the extreme disconnect between a lot of

Sita Sargeant: 00:24:42

like between like digital and marketing teams and front of house experience teams.

Sita Sargeant: 00:24:47

And it's like the marketing team are the people who are literally

Sita Sargeant: 00:24:50

saying, this is what you can expect.

Sita Sargeant: 00:24:52

Like this is what this experience is.

Sita Sargeant: 00:24:55

And then the Experience team is delivering something not completely

Sita Sargeant: 00:25:00

different, but a little bit different.

Sita Sargeant: 00:25:01

It's usually a better version.

Sita Sargeant: 00:25:03

Like it's usually, something really amazing that's not reflected in the

Sita Sargeant: 00:25:06

marketing, so then you don't get as many people coming in or they

Sita Sargeant: 00:25:09

come in with wrong expectations.

Sita Sargeant: 00:25:10

And I think that really got me seeing that.

Sita Sargeant: 00:25:13

Yeah.

Sita Sargeant: 00:25:13

And then, just knowing how powerful it can be, 'cause with She Shapes

Sita Sargeant: 00:25:17

History, it's always, for a long time it was just me doing things.

Sita Sargeant: 00:25:20

So it meant that, like my voice was coming through both through the marketing as

Sita Sargeant: 00:25:24

well as through the tours and we're able to match them up and support each other.

Sita Sargeant: 00:25:28

So I think that makes a really big difference to make sure that like your

Sita Sargeant: 00:25:30

marketing and digital team actually speak to your front of the house

Sita Sargeant: 00:25:33

team and that they're creating the same experience wherever you are.

Sita Sargeant: 00:25:36

So we've got the same tone of voice documents for both.

Sita Sargeant: 00:25:39

We've got our exact same kind of brand for both.

Sita Sargeant: 00:25:42

We speak the same on the tours that we do, like online in all of our content.

Sita Sargeant: 00:25:47

And I think that makes a really big difference for guides.

Sita Sargeant: 00:25:50

Actually to know that there's that consistency and to have that, source

Sita Sargeant: 00:25:54

of truth when they're wondering like, who is, She Shapes History.

Sita Sargeant: 00:25:57

We tell them, digitally.

Claire Bown: 00:26:00

I think it's so important to set those expectations.

Claire Bown: 00:26:02

And what I'm noticing as well in and this is something that's changed in the last

Claire Bown: 00:26:06

couple of years , , is that when I'm doing workshops I'm getting people from across

Claire Bown: 00:26:09

departments coming into those workshops, which may include marketing, may include

Claire Bown: 00:26:14

communications, may also include finance and accounting and management teams,

Claire Bown: 00:26:18

and all sorts of people, along with the learning team, along with the front of

Claire Bown: 00:26:21

house team so that everybody can be on board about what we think engagement

Claire Bown: 00:26:26

is in this museum or how we are gonna incorporate slow looking into our

Claire Bown: 00:26:30

programs or whatever we are talking about.

Claire Bown: 00:26:32

But it's a cross department approach.

Claire Bown: 00:26:35

And I think when we think about it from, participant point of view, rather

Claire Bown: 00:26:39

than just using the word visitor, they know much more what to expect.

Claire Bown: 00:26:44

So when people are coming on your tours, they've read the blurb on

Claire Bown: 00:26:48

the website and it matches the welcome that they get from the guide.

Claire Bown: 00:26:52

So there's no disconnect between the two.

Claire Bown: 00:26:54

So not only do the guides feel more comfortable, but your customers do as

Claire Bown: 00:26:59

well, the participants on your tours.

Sita Sargeant: 00:27:02

Yeah.

Sita Sargeant: 00:27:02

And something that we've noticed more and more as I've been a little bit more active

Sita Sargeant: 00:27:06

with the newsletter in particular is that people will come on the tours and then

Sita Sargeant: 00:27:10

they'll mention something to the guides that they've seen in the newsletter.

Sita Sargeant: 00:27:13

They'll be oh, I know that this is happening.

Sita Sargeant: 00:27:15

It's so exciting.

Sita Sargeant: 00:27:16

And it's 'cause they read about it in the newsletter.

Sita Sargeant: 00:27:18

And say with social media, if we do a really popular post, someone

Sita Sargeant: 00:27:21

will bring it up on a tour with the guide which I think really speaks

Sita Sargeant: 00:27:26

to that sort of community and that it's not a 'one and done' experience.

Claire Bown: 00:27:30

So thinking of the customer as a lifelong customer,

Claire Bown: 00:27:34

not just someone who comes on one tour and then they're done.

Claire Bown: 00:27:37

This seems to be much more at the forefront than the historical content.

Claire Bown: 00:27:41

So yeah.

Claire Bown: 00:27:41

Can you talk a little bit about how this perspective influences your work?

Sita Sargeant: 00:27:46

Yeah, so when we are designing experiences, there

Sita Sargeant: 00:27:50

are two key things that we think about at the start, and one is who

Sita Sargeant: 00:27:54

is the target audience for this?

Sita Sargeant: 00:27:56

You should be like, we sometimes even start with an audience before that.

Sita Sargeant: 00:27:59

We start with the tour, and I'm gonna give you a really practical example of that.

Sita Sargeant: 00:28:02

If we run two main tours in Canberra regularly, one is our

Sita Sargeant: 00:28:06

Badass Women of Canberra tour.

Sita Sargeant: 00:28:08

That tour was the first tour that I developed.

Sita Sargeant: 00:28:11

It was essentially designed for women, it was for the true believers, it was

Sita Sargeant: 00:28:15

for the people who were in the choir.

Sita Sargeant: 00:28:17

It was for people like me.

Sita Sargeant: 00:28:18

It was people who, want to know this history but just don't.

Sita Sargeant: 00:28:22

And the goal for that to, or the emotional goal, is to leave them feeling inspired.

Sita Sargeant: 00:28:27

And.

Sita Sargeant: 00:28:27

I think that we deliver on that goal, particularly for Australians.

Sita Sargeant: 00:28:30

I think that we've really delivered on that goal where they leave feeling

Sita Sargeant: 00:28:33

inspired and they will remember these stories and we hear from

Sita Sargeant: 00:28:35

people that they've remembered them.

Sita Sargeant: 00:28:37

So that's the goal for that tour.

Sita Sargeant: 00:28:38

Our customer is people like myself.

Sita Sargeant: 00:28:40

It's, women who didn't know that much, but want to know more.

Sita Sargeant: 00:28:43

About a year in I was like.

Sita Sargeant: 00:28:45

I wanna see more men on these tours.

Sita Sargeant: 00:28:47

Like we are not seeing men on tours.

Sita Sargeant: 00:28:50

And I truly believe the main people who need to hear women's history are men.

Sita Sargeant: 00:28:54

And I went, okay, if I wanna see men on these tours, how are we gonna get them?

Sita Sargeant: 00:28:58

And I started thinking about things that men find really interesting.

Sita Sargeant: 00:29:02

And I thought, something that people associate with Canberra,

Sita Sargeant: 00:29:05

that everyone finds interesting.

Sita Sargeant: 00:29:07

Spies.

Sita Sargeant: 00:29:08

Canberra has one of the highest number of spies per capita in the world.

Sita Sargeant: 00:29:12

We are a spy capital.

Claire Bown: 00:29:14

And who knew?

Sita Sargeant: 00:29:16

Who knew, exactly!

Sita Sargeant: 00:29:18

It's a city, filled with spies stories and really interesting spies stories, and I

Sita Sargeant: 00:29:24

thought, like there has to be women there.

Sita Sargeant: 00:29:25

So I started with that, audience being men, A more general audience.

Sita Sargeant: 00:29:31

And then I went, like, okay, spies, we'll get them in.

Sita Sargeant: 00:29:34

And then I went, I'll go find the women.

Sita Sargeant: 00:29:37

And found so many women and was able to then build a tour around that.

Sita Sargeant: 00:29:42

And the goal for that tour is not to leave people feeling

Sita Sargeant: 00:29:45

inspired like our other tour.

Sita Sargeant: 00:29:47

It's to leave them feeling like, what else have I missed?

Sita Sargeant: 00:29:52

what other stories do I only know?

Sita Sargeant: 00:29:53

Part of what more is there like beneath the surface.

Sita Sargeant: 00:29:57

And it's to leave them feeling like women have been there at every, like, key

Sita Sargeant: 00:30:02

moments in Australian history, yet they're just not positioned as central characters.

Sita Sargeant: 00:30:07

So it's a like a very different goal with that one.

Sita Sargeant: 00:30:10

And it is because our audience for that tour is men and we have reached that goal,

Sita Sargeant: 00:30:15

that tour, we now get 50 50 gender split.

Sita Sargeant: 00:30:18

So it's 50% men, 50% women, which is remarkable for a women's history tour.

Sita Sargeant: 00:30:22

I don't know any other women's history tour companies that

Sita Sargeant: 00:30:25

are getting tours with 50% men.

Sita Sargeant: 00:30:27

But it is because we explicitly designed a tour with men in mind.

Sita Sargeant: 00:30:33

So it's starting with that audience and then what you

Sita Sargeant: 00:30:35

wanna get out of it, your goal.

Claire Bown: 00:30:38

Super interesting.

Claire Bown: 00:30:39

Thinking about the experience as a whole and thinking about what your outcome

Claire Bown: 00:30:42

is, what you want people to leave with at the end of it is so, so important.

Claire Bown: 00:30:47

So what advice would you give to listeners, and I'm sure there's

Claire Bown: 00:30:51

lots of people listening in, taking away lots of tips and ideas already.

Claire Bown: 00:30:55

But if listeners are thinking about how they can create more engaging, more

Claire Bown: 00:30:59

community focused experiences what sort of advice would you share with them?

Sita Sargeant: 00:31:04

I would share so much advice, but I think a big one is that

Sita Sargeant: 00:31:08

if you want to create community, you need to have kind of a cause, to be

Sita Sargeant: 00:31:13

creating community around your cause.

Sita Sargeant: 00:31:15

Can't just be the history of a place that's not emotional

Sita Sargeant: 00:31:19

enough to get people attached.

Sita Sargeant: 00:31:20

You really need to pick a cause, whether the cause is gentrification.

Sita Sargeant: 00:31:25

And you're, I'm not happy with the story of gentrification where I live, and

Sita Sargeant: 00:31:28

you build a tour around that is a cause that people can get behind and that they

Sita Sargeant: 00:31:31

will feel emotionally attached to it and that they will want to, learn more

Sita Sargeant: 00:31:34

about and want to follow the journey up.

Sita Sargeant: 00:31:36

For us, our cause is the lack of recognition for women's

Sita Sargeant: 00:31:39

historical contributions and.

Sita Sargeant: 00:31:42

Because we have such a clear cause that people can get behind you you

Sita Sargeant: 00:31:46

build a community at around that.

Sita Sargeant: 00:31:48

So I would really think about what is a problem that you can

Sita Sargeant: 00:31:50

solve through your tours and that you can bring more attention to.

Sita Sargeant: 00:31:55

And I think that a lot of people tend to shy away from that because

Sita Sargeant: 00:31:58

they're afraid that if they pick a problem or kind of, like really niche

Sita Sargeant: 00:32:03

down, they're gonna lose out on an audience, but you are actually really

Sita Sargeant: 00:32:08

losing an audience by not doing that.

Sita Sargeant: 00:32:11

The majority of people that we got on our tours are locals.

Sita Sargeant: 00:32:15

We have a 60% local audience and we get a lot of people who have never

Sita Sargeant: 00:32:20

been on a walking tour in their life.

Sita Sargeant: 00:32:22

They are doing this because they believe in what we are doing and they

Sita Sargeant: 00:32:25

are interested to hear these stories and as a result, we are one of the more

Sita Sargeant: 00:32:31

profitable to a companies in Australia.

Sita Sargeant: 00:32:33

And it is because of that, that we are able to scale up and expand

Sita Sargeant: 00:32:37

to other cities because we have a core cause behind us that we are

Sita Sargeant: 00:32:42

building that community around.

Sita Sargeant: 00:32:43

So I would really encourage people to, one, think about the

Sita Sargeant: 00:32:47

problem that you are solving.

Sita Sargeant: 00:32:48

My second one is to really think about like who you hire and who you hire to

Sita Sargeant: 00:32:54

be a guide and what makes a good guide.

Sita Sargeant: 00:32:57

And, it's not often the person who was, the smartest person in the room or got,

Sita Sargeant: 00:33:02

like a pluses the whole way through.

Sita Sargeant: 00:33:05

It was the sort of person who would be checking in on other

Sita Sargeant: 00:33:07

people, in the classroom to make sure that they were doing okay.

Sita Sargeant: 00:33:11

Like that is the sort of person who would make a great guide.

Sita Sargeant: 00:33:14

And I think that it often takes a bit of maturity to be able to do

Sita Sargeant: 00:33:17

that and that people don't need to come from guiding backgrounds.

Sita Sargeant: 00:33:19

The majority of people in our team have other jobs that they do

Sita Sargeant: 00:33:22

full-time and they're doing this.

Sita Sargeant: 00:33:23

Because they believe in the problem that we're solving.

Sita Sargeant: 00:33:26

And as a result, they run one to two tours a fortnight.

Sita Sargeant: 00:33:30

And when they do run that tour, they are so excited to be there

Sita Sargeant: 00:33:33

and they get so much out of it.

Sita Sargeant: 00:33:35

And then I would think about like how you can create that community

Sita Sargeant: 00:33:38

not just for your customers, but also within your guide team.

Sita Sargeant: 00:33:41

And doing things like regular social catch-ups.

Sita Sargeant: 00:33:44

We have a really active group chat.

Sita Sargeant: 00:33:46

We also do a kind of every six months our whole team will do a walkthrough

Sita Sargeant: 00:33:51

of route of the tour route and kind of talk about what we do at each stop

Sita Sargeant: 00:33:56

and talk about, whether or not it's working, like what some people do.

Sita Sargeant: 00:33:59

And it's a great way for everyone to just give feedback and go like,

Sita Sargeant: 00:34:02

'oh, that stop's not landing for you.

Sita Sargeant: 00:34:03

Like, how can I', let's maybe brainstorm and troubleshoot how to make it better.

Sita Sargeant: 00:34:07

And we do that as a team every six months.

Sita Sargeant: 00:34:10

And then we do a catch up every two months which I think is a lot more frequent than

Sita Sargeant: 00:34:15

most people who have casual guide teams.

Sita Sargeant: 00:34:17

But it means that everyone really feels like they're friends and

Sita Sargeant: 00:34:20

they're part of that community.

Sita Sargeant: 00:34:21

And then I would also say... we make our guides fill out a post tour report.

Sita Sargeant: 00:34:28

So it is a five minute Google form.

Sita Sargeant: 00:34:31

And in it, it is basically a reflection on the tour and they are

Sita Sargeant: 00:34:34

asked to rank one to 10, how good the tour went, and then explain why.

Sita Sargeant: 00:34:38

They're asked to say which was their best stop, say why.

Sita Sargeant: 00:34:41

Which was their worst stop, say why?

Sita Sargeant: 00:34:44

And then how the tour could be improved and anything weird happening on the tour.

Sita Sargeant: 00:34:47

They do that after every single tour, and that means that me as the person

Sita Sargeant: 00:34:52

who hires and trains and manages them.

Sita Sargeant: 00:34:54

I'm able to catch things early.

Sita Sargeant: 00:34:56

I'm able to catch trends.

Sita Sargeant: 00:34:58

So we had a case where for about like for several months, every

Sita Sargeant: 00:35:02

single person was putting down the same stop as their worst stop.

Sita Sargeant: 00:35:06

And because most people only run the tour once a fortnight, they're not

Sita Sargeant: 00:35:09

picking up that's their spot every time.

Sita Sargeant: 00:35:12

And.

Sita Sargeant: 00:35:13

The fact that everyone was putting that down at their worst stop.

Sita Sargeant: 00:35:16

I was like, okay, this is on me.

Sita Sargeant: 00:35:18

This is my fault.

Sita Sargeant: 00:35:19

Like this is actually not their fault.

Sita Sargeant: 00:35:20

That everyone feels that this is their worst stop.

Sita Sargeant: 00:35:22

And then I went through, I had conversations with each person

Sita Sargeant: 00:35:25

and it led to us completely rewriting and redoing that stop.

Sita Sargeant: 00:35:28

But I was able to catch that because of the post tour report

Sita Sargeant: 00:35:31

which is like not something I think I would've caught otherwise.

Sita Sargeant: 00:35:34

'cause I'm not having a phone call debrief with every single guide after the tour.

Sita Sargeant: 00:35:38

Nor am I going and auditing people's tours every month.

Sita Sargeant: 00:35:41

So that was a really useful one for us to be able to catch and

Sita Sargeant: 00:35:44

also track demographics a little bit more deeply on the tours.

Sita Sargeant: 00:35:48

Like, 'cause one of those questions is about who was on your tour and

Sita Sargeant: 00:35:51

why did they come on that tour?

Sita Sargeant: 00:35:53

And I think that, for any marketing teams listening we are so lucky

Sita Sargeant: 00:35:57

in the experiences sector.

Sita Sargeant: 00:35:59

That we get to see our customer.

Sita Sargeant: 00:36:00

We have long conversations with them, like we should be using that

Sita Sargeant: 00:36:03

to market to them better and to create experiences for them better.

Sita Sargeant: 00:36:06

But I feel like that's rarely taken advantage of.

Sita Sargeant: 00:36:09

So that post-tour report is a great way of taking advantage of that.

Claire Bown: 00:36:13

I love that.

Claire Bown: 00:36:14

I think it's also useful for the guide themselves, so it has great

Claire Bown: 00:36:17

benefits for you, gives you insights to what's working, what's not.

Claire Bown: 00:36:21

Gives you data about who's on the tours, who's signing up.

Claire Bown: 00:36:24

But it also gives the guide themselves information about

Claire Bown: 00:36:28

how they felt about that tour.

Claire Bown: 00:36:30

And I'll often say after a tour, we don't think we have time.

Claire Bown: 00:36:33

Often we're rushing to the next thing.

Claire Bown: 00:36:35

But even just to think through, three questions about what went well

Claire Bown: 00:36:39

what was my highlight of the tour, what could I work on next time?

Claire Bown: 00:36:42

It just helps to round off the whole experience.

Claire Bown: 00:36:45

Because quite often what stays in our head are the experiences

Claire Bown: 00:36:49

that didn't go so well.

Claire Bown: 00:36:51

So just reflecting, having those few moments is great for the guide as well.

Sita Sargeant: 00:36:55

Yeah, a hundred percent.

Sita Sargeant: 00:36:56

And that's like a change that we introduced recently

Sita Sargeant: 00:36:59

And also one thing that I found really interesting was that some of the

Sita Sargeant: 00:37:04

guides were so harsh on themselves in how they ranked themselves.

Sita Sargeant: 00:37:09

And I realized I was also really harsh on myself.

Sita Sargeant: 00:37:10

I gave myself a lot of six outta 10 tours.

Sita Sargeant: 00:37:13

I don't deliver six out of 10 tours.

Sita Sargeant: 00:37:15

Even the tours that I do that are a little bit bad, I'd still say

Sita Sargeant: 00:37:18

they're probably at someone's eight.

Sita Sargeant: 00:37:20

Like objectively.

Sita Sargeant: 00:37:20

They're an eight out of 10.

Sita Sargeant: 00:37:22

And people were doing a lot of fives.

Sita Sargeant: 00:37:23

And sixes.

Sita Sargeant: 00:37:25

And then again, it made me as a manager go like, why are

Sita Sargeant: 00:37:28

they leaving feeling that way?

Sita Sargeant: 00:37:29

That's not a good way to end a tour.

Sita Sargeant: 00:37:31

Like if they're leaving, feeling a bit bummed out.

Sita Sargeant: 00:37:33

And it made me go, okay, I'm not actually being clear enough in our expectations

Sita Sargeant: 00:37:37

about what makes a great tour.

Sita Sargeant: 00:37:38

And from that, we as a team ended up developing a bit of a rubric for what

Sita Sargeant: 00:37:43

makes a really good tour and what makes an okay tour, what makes a bad

Sita Sargeant: 00:37:47

tour, and breaking that down into all of the things that go into a tour.

Sita Sargeant: 00:37:51

And that gives people something really tangible to reflect on that they

Sita Sargeant: 00:37:54

played a role in helping develop and to objectively go like, what is a good tour?

Sita Sargeant: 00:37:58

Like we've agreed on this.

Sita Sargeant: 00:38:00

So I think having that space to reflect after a tour for

Sita Sargeant: 00:38:03

tour guides is, fantastic.

Sita Sargeant: 00:38:05

From a manager's point of view, I think it's really good.

Sita Sargeant: 00:38:08

I think that you should always be thinking about how can you be

Sita Sargeant: 00:38:11

setting up your guides for success?

Sita Sargeant: 00:38:12

How can you be constantly doing training?

Sita Sargeant: 00:38:14

How can you be making them feel really proud to be a representative of your

Sita Sargeant: 00:38:18

brand or of your museum or of your tour?

Claire Bown: 00:38:21

Wonderful tips there.

Claire Bown: 00:38:22

We do need to wrap up.

Claire Bown: 00:38:24

We are approaching time.

Claire Bown: 00:38:25

So tell me a little bit about your upcoming book.

Claire Bown: 00:38:27

It's all very exciting.

Claire Bown: 00:38:29

Tell me how it relates to your work with She Shape's History and what's going on.

Sita Sargeant: 00:38:34

Yes.

Sita Sargeant: 00:38:34

So I have a book coming out that I alluded to at the start of the podcast.

Sita Sargeant: 00:38:41

I spent my six month driving around doing research for it.

Sita Sargeant: 00:38:44

So I always say that She Shapes History is the guide to Australian

Sita Sargeant: 00:38:48

women's history that you had no idea that you were missing.

Sita Sargeant: 00:38:52

And both our tours and this book in particular is definitely that

Sita Sargeant: 00:38:58

I ended up going to 31 different towns and cities across Australia.

Sita Sargeant: 00:39:03

And for anyone who's not an Australian, that is a lot of towns

Sita Sargeant: 00:39:06

and cities, that's like all of them.

Sita Sargeant: 00:39:07

We're not a very big country.

Sita Sargeant: 00:39:09

And then for about, I think it was 18 of them, I ended up developing

Sita Sargeant: 00:39:12

a self-guided walking tour that you could do in that town.

Sita Sargeant: 00:39:16

And then for the other 13, it was either like a collection of, a

Sita Sargeant: 00:39:19

choose your own adventure collection of stories, or it was a single

Sita Sargeant: 00:39:22

story that was worth the road trip.

Sita Sargeant: 00:39:24

'cause it was so great.

Sita Sargeant: 00:39:25

But it's meant to make you feel, really inspired.

Sita Sargeant: 00:39:28

It's meant to make you feel a bit like, how am I only just finding out about this?

Sita Sargeant: 00:39:32

It's meant to be hyper engaging and accessible.

Sita Sargeant: 00:39:35

It's filled with so many gorgeous designs and maps and I think that you could open

Sita Sargeant: 00:39:40

up any page and feel really delighted and, wanting to learn more about a

Sita Sargeant: 00:39:44

woman that you've never heard about.

Sita Sargeant: 00:39:46

So the book is the tour in book form.

Sita Sargeant: 00:39:50

And I am tentatively optimistic it's gonna do well.

Sita Sargeant: 00:39:54

There's nothing quite like it in Australia.

Sita Sargeant: 00:39:57

And it's been picked up a fair bit by the media already and I think it's

Sita Sargeant: 00:40:01

just gonna really put, She Shapes History on the map and it's gonna

Sita Sargeant: 00:40:05

push us hopefully into the mainstream.

Sita Sargeant: 00:40:07

Like I want She Shapes History to be a mainstream travel brand and I'm

Sita Sargeant: 00:40:10

hoping that the book helps people go, there is something here when it

Sita Sargeant: 00:40:13

comes to Australian women's history.

Sita Sargeant: 00:40:14

I wanna learn more about it.

Claire Bown: 00:40:16

I think it's a, it is an absolutely beautiful book.

Claire Bown: 00:40:18

I've been lucky enough to see an early copy.

Claire Bown: 00:40:22

I recommend anyone listening to go out and find yourself a copy of this book.

Claire Bown: 00:40:27

So could you tell listeners how they can find out more about you, your

Claire Bown: 00:40:30

book and She Shapes History tours?

Sita Sargeant: 00:40:33

Yes.

Sita Sargeant: 00:40:34

If you just Google, She Shapes History.

Sita Sargeant: 00:40:36

Our website as well as the book should come up.

Sita Sargeant: 00:40:39

You can book the tours by via our website.

Sita Sargeant: 00:40:42

You can find us on all social media platforms.

Sita Sargeant: 00:40:45

You can find me as an individual via email Or on LinkedIn where I am trying

Sita Sargeant: 00:40:50

to be a bit more active, I feel like it's an underrated social media platform.

Claire Bown: 00:40:54

Absolutely.

Claire Bown: 00:40:55

That just leaves me time to say thank you, Sita, for coming on the Art

Claire Bown: 00:40:59

Engager podcast and sharing all your wisdom and knowledge and enthusiasm.

Sita Sargeant: 00:41:05

Thank you so much, this was an absolute delight.

Claire Bown: 00:41:08

So a huge thank you to Sita for sharing her insights with us today.

Claire Bown: 00:41:12

You can find out more about She Shape's History on their website

Claire Bown: 00:41:16

or connect with Sita on LinkedIn.

Claire Bown: 00:41:19

Her book, She Shapes History: City Walks and Stories about Great Australian Women

Claire Bown: 00:41:25

is out now wherever books are sold.

Claire Bown: 00:41:28

If you've enjoyed this episode or if any of our previous episodes

Claire Bown: 00:41:32

have helped you in your work.

Claire Bown: 00:41:34

Please consider supporting the Art Engager on Patreon.

Claire Bown: 00:41:38

Your monthly subscription helps keep this content coming, and I'm

Claire Bown: 00:41:43

grateful to all of our supporters.

Claire Bown: 00:41:46

Don't forget to visit my website to learn more about The Art Engager book

Claire Bown: 00:41:51

available now wherever books are sold.

Claire Bown: 00:41:54

That's all for today.

Claire Bown: 00:41:55

Thank you for joining us, and I'll see you next time.

Claire Bown: 00:41:58

Bye.

Claire Bown: 00:42:00

Thank you for listening to the Art Engager podcast.

Claire Bown: 00:42:03

With me, Claire Bown.

Claire Bown: 00:42:05

You can find more art engagement resources by visiting my website,

Claire Bown: 00:42:09

thinkingmuseum.com, and you can also find me on Instagram @thinkingmuseum,

Claire Bown: 00:42:15

where I regularly share tips and tools on how to bring art to

Claire Bown: 00:42:19

life and engage your audience.

Claire Bown: 00:42:22

If you've enjoyed this episode, please share with others and subscribe to the

Claire Bown: 00:42:27

show on your podcast player of choice.

Claire Bown: 00:42:30

Thank you so much for listening.

Claire Bown: 00:42:32

And I'll see you next time.